Pollen Patty question

[LocustHoney]

Just bought some pollen patties and I was excited to give it to the girls. But the gentelman whom I bought them from told me that if I feed it to them now then I will be raising bees instead of going for honey. My question is if I feed it to them now will the queen start laying now and will there be enough bees in the hive to keep the eggs and larvae from being chilled?

[randydrivesabus]

the only way to know how many bees are in your hive is to look...

[LocustHoney]

I have done that. I don't think there are enough to cover both sides of a frame. Once again...I said I don't think there are. I am worried if it gets cold will they be stuck down with the brood and not move up. Therefore dying. And I don't feel comfortable with the amount of pollen stores.

[CBEE]

Well, maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like if you feed them to bees now you will compound your problem because they will start raising brood and then just like you said they will stay with the brood and now go to the honey when it gets cold.

[LocustHoney]

That is what I am afraid of. I will then hold off until the first of March. So sugar water 2:1 for now???

[kathyp]

feed pollen when it gets warm enough for them to begin brood raising.  here, that will not happen until the end of February at the earliest.....unless we have an unusually warm late winter.  

i have heard the argument that if you feed  the bees will raise brood and not make honey.  my (limited) observation is that in an established hive, that's hogwash.  the more bees, the more workers, the more honey.  the bees can do both the brood raising and the honey making.

others may argue differently.  i want strong hives because my winters are longer than my honey season.  if my hives don't come out of winter strong, there won't be any honey making for lack of bees.

[LocustHoney]

Ok.. what temperature range would I be looking for. all the bee "raisers" around here have already started to feed pollen patties.

[NWIN Beekeeper]

[I have heard the argument that if you feed  the bees will raise brood and not make honey.]
[I don't think there are enough to cover both sides of a frame. ]

Bees must have themselves well established before concentrating very heavily on foraging.
If your population is as small as you say, their likely focus will be brood rearing anyhow.
You will cause them no damage by providing them with better nutrition.

While some older bees could be pulled from foraging, the colony will never pull more than it needs and never more than would cause detriment to 'needed' colony stores. Colonies don't like taking older bees, they get beyond a point of providing good larval care (less royal jelly production, etc.).

If it impacts the honey crop you were going to pull, then likely the colony is in a weak enough state that you should nurse it first.

[My (limited) observation is:]

If you are observing the bees, that's as professional as advice gets.

[kathyp]

i think randy is right.  you need to know if they are raising brood.  temps might be an indicator.  even in warmer climates there is a winter slowdown in brood production.  if your area is warm and your queen laying, you may very well need to feed.

[rdy-b]

I have done that. I don't think there are enough to cover both sides of a frame. Once again...I said I don't think there are. I am worried if it gets cold will they be stuck down with the brood and not move up. Therefore dying. And I don't feel comfortable with the amount of pollen stores.

  your colony lacks the critacal mass needed  to keep it warm for your sake i hope they are in a small box one frame of bees?-giving them a patty is only going to help if it dose anything-RDY-B

[tig]

if the colony is weak they won't make honey anyways...

[LocustHoney]

So I gather that the majority agrees with the patty idea. I want to throw one more thing at you guys for helping me. ALL the honey stores in the brood box are gone. They (all the hives) have about a full medium of capped over honey. Which means if a cold front comes in them they won't move up to eat the super.....then death?

[rdy-b]

what makes you think they are not going to move up -which is the next move for them right-and they will be on honey when its cold -I am thinking not enough bees to generate heat will be death whether they are on honey or not    RDY-B

[LocustHoney]

They won't move up because of the eggs and larvae...right?

[rdy-b]

it is posible-but i dont think your colony is on brood -if they where you would see more frames of bees -not all bees will stay on brood -if you think the patty is going to jump start a population explosion -that is not going to happen over night-it is posible that your bees will be ok-but around here anything under five frames gets combined-or at the least placed over a strong colony for warmth moving up -paties and light syrup -i want my boxes full of bees -but in the wintertime that can come with its own set of problems your bees your call -  RDY-B

[LocustHoney]

I see. I will feed one hive to see what happens. The uncertantity is killing me. To bad beekeeping isn't cut and dry. But then it wouldn't be this fun!!!

[LocustHoney]

By the way, how would you combine the hives with less than 5 frames at this time of the year? Wouldn't there be conflicts on intrest in that new hive?

[rdy-b]

when it is cold out and the bees arnt flying there is no conflict the bees are slowed down and i think they actually welcome the the new bees to the cluster -if they are flying you can do the regular regiments of a news paper combine or you can move boxes from one spot to the other -by switching positions you will pick up the bees from a stronger box into weak one - but i think in your case we are just talking about placing frames of bees from one hive to the other -this is something i do in the winter months and not to be done for any reason other than to save a small colony from freezing - RDY-B

[LocustHoney]

Thanks for the explanation. Didn't know that was an option.

[Keith]

Why not just move a frame of honey to each side of the cluster. Then they dont have to move up.