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Author Topic: Hive body and super preservative treatment?  (Read 3934 times)
johnnybigfish
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« on: January 02, 2008, 10:36:10 PM »

Hi!
 I just saw a bee program on RFDTV Monday after work And I watched every second of it with my wife! It was really coool!..Until I found out that this show was the first in a series and I have no idea when to see the next show.
 Anyways this guy talked about treating the new hive boxes with something called>..Copper Napthalate<. The can he poured it out of had "Coppo" on the front. This guy just kind of painted it on his boxes. It ran down with a consistency of thompsons water seal.Its supposed to make your hive boxes last more than 10 years or something like that.
 Today I just got my order from Dadants to make 5 more hives and I intend to use this stuff before painting.
 Has anybody heard of this stuff or even used it before? Is it something I may want to reconsider before using?
 Your friend,
john
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 06:29:20 AM »

Supposedly it is safe for people and bees.  I've never used it and have no intentions of using it.  The people I've seen use it usually dip it, but some paint it on.  It makes the hives green.  My theory is I don't put anything IN a hive I wouldn't eat or eat off of, and people who use the naphthanate put it both inside and out.

I don't and I wouldn't use it.

I used to paint.  Then I got tired of that and just quit.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stoppainting

I bought a bunch of new equipment and wanted to make sure it would last so I did this:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm
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Michael Bush
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steveouk
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 08:12:15 PM »

Wax used to be used as a natural polish and treatment for wood by carpenters. My grandfather used to just rub it into wood and then polish it. The wood lasted for years. I can see the benefit of using bees wax on woodenware. However i think i'll paint for a bit. 20-30 gallons of melted bee's wax don't look like fun to me unless i was treating hives on a large scale ( think ill just stick with two for this year)
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johnnybigfish
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 09:08:07 PM »

 Hey Steveouk!
  2 hives Huh Thats what I said last summer too!
 I bet you'll end up with more by the end of summer! I kind of think that before you know it someones going to call you to catch some bees in their yard, and you'll catch them! Then you'll get another call, and another,...and so on... And you'll cath more!..You'll be called "The Bee Man"!
You'll be doing your best to think of ways to afford more bee houses! You're going to be a "KING"!!!...Steve, this is your destiny....This is all of our destinys! We're all bee addicts and prisoners of being kings in a tiny little bee worlds!
 Anyways, getting back to reality,..I guess I wont be using this copper napthalate. "If Lowes dont have it, Johnny dont need it!"
  But I probably will go ahead and paint. This might change after I have more hives like some people here.
 See you guys!

your friend,
John
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pdmattox
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 09:15:15 PM »

dadant sells the stuff your talking about it is labled as coppertox.  I know people that use it and give it praise. I paint all of mine,if it last 5-10 years what more could I want.  Not much we but these days last 10 or more years anyway.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 09:20:51 PM »

I have boxes that I painted 33 years ago and I still have bees in them...
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Michael Bush
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steveouk
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 08:41:09 AM »

lol john, you had my wife crying , OMG the bee's are going to take over our lives !
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2008, 08:14:01 AM »

Sorry to bring back a dead post, but I also saw that program on RFDTV and wondered the same thing.  The stuff from Mannlake is really expensive so I checked Home Depot and found a product called "Copper Green" that has 10% copper napthenate as an active ingredient and 90% inert ingredients (not sure what the inert stuff is, not listed on their website).  Think this is the same stuff?
Here in the Cascades in western Washington it's really wet all the time and I would like to preserve my woodenware a little better than the house paint that's on them now.  Just after 1 year of service, my telescoping covers are starting to warp and split where they're nailed.  Just bought 5 more hive bodies and thought I'd give copper napthenate a shot.  Anyone used "Copper Green"?

Sean Kelly
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Cindi
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2008, 09:33:57 AM »

Sean, oh brother.  I would just save some money and use paint on the colonies.  I wonder why though that the covers are warping, that is not good and I don't know why they would.  I live in that rainy PNW, just like you and my telescoping covers are in perfect order.  I haven't even painted them, they just came natural wood with the metal on top, of course.  Show us a picture of what you are talking about.  I am currious about this warp.  Have a great and best of days. Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2008, 10:25:24 AM »

I recently spoke to a few bee keepers in my area that say they no longer bother with telescopic lids. They just get a sheet of ply wood that paint it, or cover it with the tin from old lids. When the wood rots or warps you just get a new sheet of plywood. Does anyone else do this Huh

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Stephen
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2008, 11:24:34 AM »

>Does anyone else do this

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm
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Michael Bush
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2008, 02:43:40 PM »

Sean, oh brother.  I would just save some money and use paint on the colonies.  I wonder why though that the covers are warping, that is not good and I don't know why they would.  I live in that rainy PNW, just like you and my telescoping covers are in perfect order.  I haven't even painted them, they just came natural wood with the metal on top, of course.  Show us a picture of what you are talking about.  I am currious about this warp.  Have a great and best of days. Cindi

Well, the only cover that's looking bad is the one I got from Mann Lake.  The one from Brushy Mountain is just fine.  I still would like to try using copper napthenate but not pay $150 for a 5 gallon jug of it from the beekeeping supply stores.
They're not really warping on top, just on the sides.  It soaked up a bunch of water and is kinda soggy.  It's probably just bad construction or something.  I'd take a picture, but we lost our digital camera down in Oregon over Christmas.
Besides that TV show I saw, I've also heard a bunch of other beekeepers say that copper napthenate works wonders and doesn't hurt the bees one bit.  You preserve the wood, inside and out with it first and then paint it on the outside like you normally would.
I liked the idea that the "Copper Green" stuff from Home Depot was considered environmentally safe.  If it's the same stuff I think I'm gunna try it.  If it don't work, then I'll stop.  I just was hoping someone here would know anything more about "Copper Green" vs. the stuff that the bee supply places sell.

Sean Kelly
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johnnybigfish
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2008, 05:24:26 PM »

 Hi Sean!
 I went ahead and painted my new boxes. My home depot didnt know what I was talking about.
 Did you see the next episode of that show on RFDTV? I didnt and I couldnt find it showing for a week looking thru the guide for DISH.
 Did you notice on that show that the guy was building boxes that werent notched on the ends?..That made me think about if I could use plywood as box material as I have a mees of 3/4 inch plywood. I dont know that it wouldnt come apart at the corners in a year or two.
 Anybody ever use plywood?
your friend,
john
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2008, 05:46:30 PM »

i'm not sure how well plywood would hold up to prying with a hive tool but i think if you can get the ends sealed good so it doesn't delaminate it would work.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2008, 05:54:26 PM »

>Anybody ever use plywood?

Yes.  I used to be a carpenter and used scraps of plywood flooring extensively.  Plywood is heavier, doesn't last any longer and is usually (perhaps that has changed) more expensive than pine. Particle board disintegrates quickly compared to pine or plywood. I haven't done any blandex to speak of, but from my experience it doesn't age as well as plywood but much better than particle board.

There there is outgassing...
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Michael Bush
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johnnybigfish
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2008, 06:29:38 PM »

  Outgassing.....Im guessing that thats fumes coming out of the plywood from the glue they put it together with?. I didnt think of this..I make my tops and bottoms out of plywood. I didnt think of tearing up the edges with a hive tool either.
I better "Think this over" as my mother in law would say!
thanks guys!

your friend,
john
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2008, 11:56:49 AM »

Hey John,

Yeah there were two other episodes after the one we've been talking about.  I have Tivo on my satellite dish and set it to automatically record with #1 priority, lol.  It's going to be on again tonight too!
The guys at our Home Depot are no help either.  I just did a search on their website for copper napthenate and that's how I found Copper Green (still looking to see if anyone's used it before).
The thought of using plywood outside here in the Pacific Northwest makes me scared.  smiley  I'm sure it would work, but I'd rather spend a little extra and get something that will last me a long time like Michael Bush's hive he had for 33 years.

Sean Kelly
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Frantz
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2008, 01:37:44 PM »

Hey guys,
I use the copper green stuff all the time. I use it to treat lumber that is going to be with in 10" of the ground. Deck supports, joists, posts, etc. I get it at home depot. They have a brown, clear, and a green version. There are various amounts of copper in them to give them kind of a good, better, best type of protection. I have used all three at different times. I have about 5 cans of the stuff in my big box van with all of my other tools. I will grab a can and look at it to see if it is the same stuff you are discribing. I would love to coat my hives with the clear stuff, never thought of that. I have been building supers, and mediums all winter and have yet to decide which way I want to coat them. I like the natural look so I was just going to leave them alone, but who knows. I have access to tons of material and building them is no big deal. So I wasn't to worried how long they would last. I will check on the toxicity and see what we come up with. My home depot has a couple of good guys that will be able to tell me. Our home depot up here (Park City UT,) is so green its not even funny. So many tree and rock huggers up here that I am amazed home depot even sell lumber up here. And now with the Sundance film festival in full swing, sprouting that we are all going to die if we don't return to riding bikes and stuff, I am sure its just a matter of time.

Sorry, did I get a little off point there???
I will check on that stuff.
F
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deejaycee
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 02:14:53 PM »

Article from New Zealand site about how to use copper naphthenate for preserving supers:

www .beehive .org.nz/tips-and-advice/taa-hive-preserving.htm

I've also seen it suggested to use a 1:1 mix of turps and Metalex (the local copper napthenate product), but that would certainly be very expensive.

I've also seen that you should only treat assembled supers, not the unassembled parts, as the treatmetn makes the wood so hard that it's too hard to nail or screw readily.   That may have been in reference to a 1:1 mix though.
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johnnybigfish
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2008, 02:15:18 PM »

Ok, I gotta go to my TV and see if i have the same schedule as you on RFDTV. I dont want to miss anything.
hey Frantz! Dont worry about getting off topic here. I think we all do pretty much!
your friend,
john
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BenC
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 09:25:41 PM »

I've made several boxes and lids of plywood and they seem to hold up fine.  Stick with real exterior ply, no osb, mdf, or advantec.  Copper Napth Is found near the deck preservatives and sealers, in a can labeled term-in-8.  Around here it can be found at home depot, lowes, and Ace.  Smells like liquid death and takes a long time to dry but it will protect wood in contact with the ground.  The product I mentioned is 25%Cu-napth and I've used it cut with terpentine and small bit of boiled linseed oil to 2.5%active ingredient, brushed only on the outside of the boxes and dried for 1 week before priming.  Do it (application and drying) outdoors.  I cut it to 2.5% because I've read that it's still effective and that conc. was recommended for beehives or above ground applications under paint.  Sorry I don't remember where I read that.  I've seen the program on RFD, that guy sloshed the green stuff all over (and in) the box.  Based on the fact that all edges inside my hives seem well chewed/smooted by the bees, I've limited my trials with the copper applications to the exterior of the boxes.  Does it really make a difference in box servicability over time?  I don't know yet. 
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 09:56:06 PM »

 You were right shawn!
 There was another episode last nite at 01:30 in the morning. I thought about getting up for it as I get up around that time alot anymore to go to the loo and then get a drink(of water).
 I guess Ill just wait for it to come back some other time....you know how it is,..They show thier programs over and over, and eventually it will be on at a reasonable time again!
your friend,
john
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2008, 09:48:11 AM »

Sorry for bringing back a post from the dead, but I wanted to add on to this.

So I got that Copper Green stuff from Home Depot and went ahead and saturated everything except the inner cover and frames, just like Keith Delaplane recommended on that video series he did.  Soaked everything inside and out.  It actually looks pretty cool and I almost don't want to paint it now that it's all a werid green color.

The container says that after 48 hours you can paint over it (like Dr. Delaplane did in his video) but mine still feels pretty greasy a week after treating the wood and I'm afraid the paint wont stick.

Maybe after it warms up a little.  It's been really damp and in the 40's - 50's still, probably taking it a little longer to dry and absorb.

After comparing this stuff to the stuff Mannlake and other suppliers sell, it's almost exactly the same thing!  5 gallons of Perm-E8 from mannlake is $189.  A 1/4 gallon jug of Copper Green from home depot was only $8 and treated 5 hive bodies, 3 bottom boards, and 3 telescoping covers.  The ingredients were almost exactly the same too!  Much cheaper and they had it in stock at my store down the road.  They also have Copper Green in a spray can which I might try next time (if this stuff ever dries!).

Sean Kelly
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2008, 09:52:24 AM »

That stuff will take a couple of days at 75 + to dry. I use it all the time and it will stay permanently wet/greasy at 40-50 degrees. So yea, just give it a little heat and it will dry up.
I have been thinking about using it as well, post some pics of the hives all green. I have thought the same thing. Why not just leave them green??
Frantz
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2008, 06:02:20 PM »

Hopefully the weather warms up some and I'll put them outside to get some sun.  I have no other way to warm the stuff up.  Since they're treated now, probably wouldnt hurt them to put it all in my bee yard as-is without paint.  I'll take a pic then. 

Sean Kelly
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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2008, 06:11:58 PM »

Thanks you guys!

Perm E 8.....
I'll look for it!
your friend,
john
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2008, 03:06:24 AM »

John,

Not Perm E-8, that stuff is expensive.  Look for Copper Green at Home Depot.  It's cheap and the exact same thing.

Sean Kelly
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2008, 12:29:50 PM »

Thanx Sean!!

your friend,
john
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