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Author Topic: Democrat? or Republican?  (Read 6616 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2007, 05:38:31 PM »

kirk-o, a reference to clinton!!  and i thought you didn't study history.  i misjudged you!   Undecided
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Kirk-o
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2007, 08:17:30 PM »

Yes you mis-judged me.If everyone would take my advice there would be no problems in the world.
kirko
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2007, 02:32:40 PM »

The difference is simple.  In rhetoric the Remacrats and Depublicans are very different.  In practice they are identical.  They both take your money and freedom and they do it for "your own good".

Hopefully someday everyone will stop wasting their votes on them and vote for a third party that they really want.
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Michael Bush
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kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2007, 03:30:12 PM »

MB, if ever there were a time when a 3rd party candidate had a chance, it's now.  unfortunately, the 3rd party person is usually such a wing nut, no one can seriously picture them as president.

i will make a prediction smiley:  ron paul will run 3rd party after the first couple of primarys.  he has a pretty good following and has enough money to give it a go.  while i agree with him on about 70% of what he says, the other 30% is a most awesome display of both wings, and nuts!  if i am correct, he will draw more from the republicans than the democrats.  we will have obama or hillary for president. 

Merry Christmas   evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2007, 03:43:01 PM »

I think I will run. Something along the lines of...

"Why not me for the last President. The world is ending in 2012 you know."
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« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2007, 06:02:20 PM »

hmmm, i strongly disagree with the no-vote choice
I've been told quite a few times you have to vote, just so you can complain about the wrong guy being elected (if you don't vote, you "can't" complain-don't have the "right"
so...as our presidential elections were closing i started to looking at candidates, and found out, all of them are a*****es and should be either locked in prison or introduced to Slovenia's first "shooting squad" (and i do mean this, although, we would need to establish this squad first...)

so, what choice do i have? is voting lesser evil better than voting greater evil? in a way yes, what else can i do?
i can, not vote, that way, i say that I'm not happy with any candidates and that i don't support any of them for that matter.
NOT voting is an important part of democracy, at least i see it that way
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2007, 07:33:38 PM »

not voting is an option.  having the right to not vote is a good thing.  ask the Russians smiley.  i would rather that people who do not bother to be informed stay home.  in Oregon, we have gone to 'vote by mail'.  it sucks.  if you can not summon the energy to get to the voting booth, you should not bother.  there is also a sense of community gone, and a sense of pride in doing ones civic duty gone.  no one in Oregon notices.  i'm reasonably certain that there is no one alive in this state who ever took a government or civics class.  they probably think civics is some kind of hybrid car  sad
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2007, 08:16:09 PM »

kathyp, I could not agree with you more. People that vote for the wrong reason make me sick. Make yourself aware of the facts and then vote your conscious. Voting is a privilege and should be exercised with pride.

Same goes for civic duty. I volunteer for service in my community and think that everyone should in some capacity. I take pride in my duties and hope that I make a contribution.

Steve   
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2007, 09:41:46 PM »

Maybe everyone should go cast a ballot and vote for no one.  Smiley

I want "none of the above" on the ballot.
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Michael Bush
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2007, 10:06:48 PM »

Maybe everyone should go cast a ballot and vote for no one.  Smiley

I want "none of the above" on the ballot.

Forecast: Headline in the New York Times "Nodbody won by a Landslide."
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
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« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2007, 05:44:28 AM »

in Oregon, we have gone to 'vote by mail'.  it sucks.  if you can not summon the energy to get to the voting booth, you should not bother. 

ummm, this means you can cast your vote by mail, right?
to me, this is a sign of a desperate "leaders". they just can't accept the fact no one would even bother to support anyone, so they try to ease the things to a maximum.
inactive citizens are death to "democratic" system, so they'll do just about everything to "activate" citizens.

further on...the biggest problem about politics is their propaganda.
slovenia is independet, yes and i am Pope Mici the I. lefties are still holding all the threads around here, the media are not. by that, i mean they are not MEDIA:(media is just a mean of "transportation"-of information, it does nothing else, it has no opinion, no statement...just like you have a media in nuclear power plant, it does nothing else but transport energy)
they are propaganda means. again, like for so many other things, all you can count on is, the unimaginable stupidity of people. this is why, our prime minister allows him self to say a thing like: "our government has had twice the ammount of "negative" articles in media than previous one".
media does not say whether a certain act is bad or good, it just tells us it happened.

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buzzbee
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« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2007, 10:48:14 AM »

kathyp,
sounds like an easy way for people to sell votes if they don't have to show up in person.
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ooptec
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« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2007, 12:14:39 PM »

Mail in votes never manage to be counted and now with the push for un-secure electronic voting w/no hard copy the possibilities for jiggery-pokery are even greater.

BTW Clinton left a surplus budget and booming economy. Now it's Huh?? ...... w/rip-off mortgages and selling national unsecured debt and moving blue collar jobs to China dragging the economy into the dumper. So much for the dem. tax and spend theory. It seems the repugs have a no-tax for rich and seem to outdo the dems in the spending dept. Unless it has anything to do w/education, poor, infrastructure, environment or health care.

Only solution I can see to end the 2 party (actually they are the same undressed) is gov't pays
equal $$ for all candidates and eliminate all the PAC's, special interests and other where it ends up the biggest bankroll wins the election. We all know who gives the biggest $$ and it isn't the man on the street.

Who cares if 100 different parties get elected, the one thing about minority gov'ts is that they don't have the free rein to push things down your throat but have to more govern by consensus. We have had it in Canada regularly and even today it keeps our 'baby bush' from enacting the draconian measures y'all seem to enjoy down south of us.

A lot of what Ron Paul says I don't agree with but I will say what is important I do agree w/and what is not is not such a big deal and I can live w/.

So my mail in non-counted ballot will be for him.

Vote independent or get used to th indus/milit complex skimming both the fat and the meat

Also actually voting and writing in 'none of the above' is actually a way better than not voting at all as they can say you are too lazy or disinterested to vote if you don't, but if the 'none of the above' wins the election it's kind of hard to ignore. Altho w/the lamestream media not reporting Cheney burning his office down to get rid of incriminating evidence, why would we think they would report that?

cheers

peter
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kathyp
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« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2007, 01:12:01 PM »

clinton left money in the bank.  true.  he left an economy in decline.  that probably was not his fault.  there is a flow to the ups and downs of an economy that presidents have little control over.  they can lower or raise taxes, and spend money.  that is about it.

he also presided over the most corrupt government that we have ever had.  to be fair, much of that corruption and ineptitude can be laid at hillarys' feet.  she valued loyalty over competence. 

we had a dismantled FBI with a technophobic director.  a strengthening of the "the wall", keeping law enforcement and intel from sharing info.  we had a justice department that resembled the KGB.  they gave us Ruby Ridge, Waco, and a little boy dragged from his home by men in masks and deported to a communist country. Clinton watched as bin Laden organized, trained, and funded terrorists.  he watched as we were attacked multiple times.  his people did not know, or could not figure out, that terrorists were training in this country to attack this country.  he committed our military multiple times to conflicts that were not in the interest of the US, and ran when a few were killed and public opinion was against it.  he began the dismantling of the military.  he signed off on destroying our human intel system because "we shouldn't be paying bad people for info".

we can skip the felonys he commited......

maybe it's just me, but i'm not sure money in the bank was a fair trade.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2007, 01:35:07 PM »

The economy wasn't in decline till the last couple of years actually, not on clintons watch.

Bush lowered taxes for who? and how about spending money like a drunken sailor (apologies to actual sailors    lol)

And talk about corrupt government, they raked clinton over the coals and the best they could do was Monica Lewinsky. Bush ...... gee BILLIONS of actual cash lost in Iraq and I'd bet the Iraqis didn't get it. As well as Kellog, Haliburton, blackwater etc etc not only syphoning w/no bid contracts but billing 10's of millions on phony expenditure that have been uncovered yet no repercussions. Calims he actually talks to god, and god responds.

Bush's attorney general run out of office, the patriot act, wiretapping and eavesdropping on citizens, GITMO, creating more terrorists than anyone could think possible w/his heavy handed ineffective tactics. Flood of immigrants across southern borders and as far as bin laden goes, that invading Iraq to get him, how did that all work out?? Outing CIA operatives to the press and then pardoning the fall guy after was convicted in a court of peers.

Bush's Saudi buddies who were the only ones flying (out of town) after 9-11 and were the financiers to the Wahabists who were all but a couple of the 9-11 terrorists and that was on bush's watch.

I didn't think clinton was a saint but seems to be now only in comparison.

cheers

peter
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2007, 02:26:29 PM »

i'll give your post high marks for spitting back liberal talking points. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2007, 02:35:06 PM »

Thanks,

By the way what color is the sky in your world
lol

cheers

merry christmas

peter
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buzzbee
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« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2007, 02:38:13 PM »

The amount of money flowing into the treasury is muchgreater after the tax cuts. If we could get congress to quit spending it there would be a surplus. Giving money to every touchy,needy cause has cost us greatly. look at how many collect ssi(Yeah thats right,money meant for older peoples retirement because they find a way to have nervous breakdowns,bi-polar disorders and the like,many of which I have personally seen to be bogus claims sucking the funds straight friom social security.
For what is allowed in these types of payments,I'm sure every American could qualify for some type of disorder and ask Uncle Sam to pay.
But then who would we tax?
At least Clinton actually found a way to tax the working poor by heavily taxing tobacco products.
About the wars,I hear all the libs calling for troops home from Iraq,why are they not calling or the return of the troops from Kosovo that are still stationed there?  I guess that is a real security issue there!
What has your country been doing in the war on terror? Don't hear much about it!
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ooptec
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« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2007, 03:00:20 PM »

Well not much other than .......

We are one of 3 countries seeing action in Afghanistan other than the US and operating in a much more dangerous sector (the south) than y'all are all by ourselves. And from a country to your north that has a total population of less than the greater Los Angeles area.

Remember Afghanistan? the actual country that did have terrorists

for a laugh read http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bill_dou_071223_why_bush__26_condi_ric.htm

Yea, (quote) Giving money to every touchy,needy cause has cost us greatly.(end quote) like the elimination of estate taxes for the uber rich, Halliburton fleeing to Dubai to escape taxes and indictments as no extradition treaty. crushing California's attempt to rein in pollution and make the oil go farther in vehicles.

(quote)I'm sure every American could qualify for some type of disorder and ask Uncle Sam to pay. (end quote) unless you're a veteran or work for wages.

Also the troops in Kosovo are a very small number, the mission is stable (successful), barring involvement from mother russia, and the expense is maybe 1/1,000,000 of the cost of invading sovereign countries for WMD and al queda (pre invasion), How is that going for y'all?

Are you one of the 25% that still think bush is doing a 'heck of a job'?
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buzzbee
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« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2007, 03:23:05 PM »

I guess the poisons Saddam killed many of his own people with wouldn't count as a WMD.Guess what,they caused mass destruction.
Who do you think these insurgents are,The Red Cross,no many are Al quaida.
We have met the enemy on their own ground and they have not been able to pull off another attack here.
Maybe if we pack up and come home they will leave us alone. I'm guessing not.
What strategic interest did we have in Kosovo anyhow?? It was "just" a civil war.
I guess Milosovic killing his own people was a little different!!
Using that criteria we should probably never leave Iraq! I'm guessing it would be better to let Iran and Syria have Iraq!
As far as that link goes you know it's just an agenda cast not news when the top of the page has a loink to text impeach Cheney!
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