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Author Topic: The biggest inventions in beekeeping ever  (Read 4479 times)
Finsky
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« on: December 15, 2007, 05:06:45 AM »

What are we learnig and teaching here? - Yes I know. I have used these words before......

What I do not accept in this forum is that some teach 200 years old beekeeping as a new, profound inventions.
It is sad to see, that beginners do not get advices of modern beekeeping. No extractor, no foundation, no wires, not queen selecting.

It is nice and makes sun shine every day, but those who has planned extra money via beekeeping will be misleaded into deep marsh.

In real life we have short of veterinary in Finland. They are using their time with pet cats and docs and they have not time to take care of farm animals. This forum has same problem. One hive and she/he is a beekeeper.

Before I leave for ever this forum, I suggest that you take a look into beekeeping history.  RETURNING BACK TO YOUR FUTURE!
http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/userimages/2007/07/delorean-to-bring-back-their-car-to-the-future.jpg


See first splendid tour via 200 year beekeeping Ukraine bee museum
http://www.outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/Museum/Beekeeping_Museum.htm


See more, splended home source of information   
http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/index.htm

http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/history.htm

The frame  --- Many say that frame was invented  there  but A major improvement in hive design was made in 1851 by Lorenzo Langstroth.

The extractor  ….The centrifugal extractor was invented in 1865 by an Austrian, Major Hruschka.

The foundation  It was invented in Austria, in 1857 by Johannes Mehring

The artificial  insemination, mainly used after II world war

The queen breeding = first step was movable frames that you may change the queen and select the new from good hive.
Second was artificial insemination, which made controlled mating possible.

Third was I say, the importing good  bees from others countries. From German black to Italian and Carnica and others.

Can you guess what the next 100 years will bring? ask the history text

Jep, surely,  one fundamental invention is container ship system and selling logistics. It moves honey from country to country and  keep local honey price on it,s level and affects on local beekeeping.

Today logistics of ordinary  grocery makes  honey selling very difficult to local beekeeper, but it makes to customer very easy to taste different kind of honey over the world. 

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/cellsize.html


WORLD WIDE HONEY INCLUDED







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JP
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 06:06:17 AM »

[quote author=Finsky
> What are we learnig and teaching here? - Yes I know. I have used these words before......

> What I do not accept in this forum is that some teach 200 years old beekeeping as a new, profound inventions.
It is sad to see, that beginners do not get advices of modern beekeeping. No extractor, no foundation, no wires, not queen selecting.

> It is nice and makes sun shine every day, but those who has planned extra money via beekeeping will be misleaded into deep marsh.

Finsky, it seems that most of the people who use this site keep bees as a hobby. It appears that your view is that if you don't do beekeeping for profit and yields it is a waste of time. Is this statement correct? Is this how you see it? If so, then I think I finally understand your thinking.

Sincerely, JP
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 06:44:54 AM »

all these "new" beekeeping methods that aren't really new to the world are still new to some of us without a lot of years of experience. Yes, all that info is available someplace besides this forum but many of us like to learn about it here. We can then take this new to us knowledge and adapt what we like and reject what we don't like. Experience is the best teacher.
Your 2 cents is appreciated Finsky as are the other 2 cents contributed by the other experienced people. And some of the not so experienced as well.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 07:16:56 AM »

I can't wait for spring in Finland  rolleyes
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shawnwri
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2007, 08:02:33 AM »

Finsky, it seems that most of the people who use this site keep bees as a hobby.Sincerely, JP

I think that is what I have noticed.  I spend more time at beesource and it seems as though there are more commercial beeks and sideliners over there.  Still nice to get as much perspective as possible.
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mudlakee
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2007, 09:26:53 AM »

At this point I would liketo say thank you for all the info. You folks have answered most of my questions before I knew what the question was  Thanks   Tony
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rdy-b
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2007, 04:22:57 PM »

I can't wait for spring in Finland  rolleyes
                 COUNT ME IN ON THAT ONE  huh RDY-B
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Shawn
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2007, 05:04:43 PM »

Not sure where this all stimed from but even though I do not yet have bees I have leared a lot from just reading everyones post. I have also gained valuable info from the voice chat. I really dont think you can get enough info to do anything right from just one source. Frisky, if you are trying to say everyone needs to go back to how people use to keep bees back in the day I might agree to a certain point. My son and I are only keeping bees as a hobby and for our own enjoyment of natural honey. I wish we could live in the counrty, have our own chickens, cows, and other animals so we dont have to depend on a grocery store for all our food. But if you are talking about what JP said then maybe money is the source of evil. Maybbe we need more clarification on what you are trying to say. Either way I hope you enjoy life and have a great day.
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DennisB
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 06:01:19 PM »

After reading the article in the newest Bee Culture (I think) about the hobbyist beekeeper terminology versus the part-time / full time terminology I thing that we are all in it for basically the same reason, right? Some just have the time and ability to spend more time with the hives than others. I don't make my living from farming or bees, (I own a hobby store) but you have to admit that none of us would have started into the Hobby, (er.. I mean profession part-time or full-time) if it didn't interest us. The best part about this forum is that there is so much knowledge given without judgment that it is more pleasant to spend time here. I am rambling here so bear with me.
The best thing about knowledge is that one can take it and use whatever bits and pieces might be needed to answer the question at hand.
Whatever skill level or knowledge level we(you) are on, thanks for the answers and keep up the hard work.

DennisB

PS  which one of those containers has the imported honey in it?
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2007, 10:33:32 AM »

Actually, there is a movement beginning to get away from some of the modern "better" ways of farming:
cow antibiotic feed lots vs. grass fed beef
chicken antibiotic packed coops vs. more natural methods
Beehive antibiotic yards vs. more natural methods

In all cases, the modern way definately has a much greater production with lower per-unit costs, but has led to problems (bacterial resistance, anyone?? That is going to be a problem...).  And has led to other countries mimicking what we do best and doing it cheaper (bird-flu?  Hooray!) .  Now it is time to look at the game and redefine what we are doing.  I still buy "modern" chicken and beef, and appreciate the cheapness, but given the option would raise my own the "old" way in a heartbeat.

Quote
It is sad to see, that beginners do not get advices of modern beekeeping. No extractor, no foundation, no wires, not queen selecting.

I think a beginner would benefit from reading a book or two before tackling the issues on a forum like this, exactly because the differences in opinions can be confusing.

But I learned the "modern way".  But I have LOTS LOTS LOTS more fun doing it MY way.  I use some, leave some.  Sometime the "modern" way isn't economical because there i s an economy of scale going on.  Then it is time for the "old" way.

I'm still going to do it the FUN WAY!!!! grin  And I learn lots more that way.  Some foundationless, some plastic, some wired, my own boxes, extractor, cut and crushed comb, but all of it is now done MY way, mistakes and all! rolleyes

Rick
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Rick
Finsky
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2007, 10:53:13 AM »

.
I have only 20 hives.  In my country professionals cannot live merely with 500 hives. They must do many other things to get gas to they cars. They sell nucs, other beekeepers honey, beekeeping tools, they have often farmhouse.


Most are hobbiest. Of course they are. Every statistics say that. And most beginners stop very soon they hobby because they do not like it.

I do not wait the spring because it come without my waiting. One day I just say to my wife: it is spring now, have you noticed. Yes, she says, like every spring. Before spring it is long winter.



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Finsky
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2007, 10:58:48 AM »

Finsky, it seems that most of the people who use this site keep bees as a hobby. It appears that your view is that if you don't do beekeeping for profit and yields it is a waste of time. Is this statement correct? Is this how you see it? If so, then I think I finally understand your thinking.

Sincerely, JP

You know, with my system, I cannot make profit. Hives are too far, too few, too much gasoline bills.

Your statement is  far from correct.

I just ask, that if you have beekeeping as hobby, why it is recommended to nurse bees with 200 years old method.
Of course you do what ever but why just 200 years old is good enough. Why 100 years is not enough?

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Finsky
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 11:09:47 AM »

But if you are talking about what JP said then maybe money is the source of evil. Maybbe we need more clarification on what you are trying to say. 

Hehe heh heh. We had TV program and they asked "what is the most  beautiful word in the world?"

-- One said :"Monthly salary. It gives all good feelings to every one."

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We have saying in our country: If you are going to be a professional beekeeper, keep your wife in some one else's work. And not let her be sick.

.
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Finsky
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 11:30:56 AM »

.
We have a category

RAPID BEEYARD GROWTH
Turn your backyard Hobby into a viable business


What we have there? Same stuff, long hives and top bars. In Africa it works but not in USA.
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Finsky
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2007, 12:14:18 PM »

.
What is best fun on  forums?

I am a bember of forum Odd Land. It has no rules or moderators. Only what you need is there is vivid imagination. You can collide with others' imagination as much as you want. But we try that it is clever. Sparkling of mind. - I like if some one is humorous trickly people.

But if someone ask how to wire frames. I have no reason to make fun with that question, because I do see not any fun it that issue.
"You need no wires" - What fun is in that, or hobby like? Probably I have not enough imagination.

Some have asked what skill they woud have in their life
- "Pulling from nothing".

Jep, perhaps it is pulling from nothing if you make a hobby from "frames without wires"  grin

.
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2007, 04:00:48 PM »

Finsky Says: "Before I leave for ever this forum, I suggest that you take a look into beekeeping history.  RETURNING BACK TO YOUR FUTURE!"

Well Finsky, for nearly 5 years I have gone to bat dozens and dozens of times for you, once losing 2 moderators over your membership - I don't disagree with your post in the points you make, but the line above bugs me to no end. I have appreciated your knowledge, your prolific writing, your aiding others in their quest to be better beekeepers, and at the loss of moderators early on and several other member - we are talking lots of members who complain about your STYLE, your ruff exterior and your innate ability to always disagree at the drop of a hat (part of your culture you have told me) but let me say this nicely Finsky:


You have been a good contributing member, you have many thousands of posts between Finman and Finsky, and you have fought a good fight with your opinions on the use of small cell and many other topics - but I'm a firm believer that NO MEMBER from Admin to New-bee is greater than the common good of the forum. If you wish to go, then leave sooner than later and save us all the added grief, you sound as if your mere presence is a gift to us here and your message of "before I leave for good" may as well start today rather than to put you through the misery of having to be with us any longer - I guess I didn't realise how much of an inconvenience it was to you to post here.

I'll miss your feisty attitude, but again don't let the forum door hit you in the rear "if leaving" is what you plan to do, I wish you well and I thank you for your service to our community - but don't feel obligated to stay one second longer than you feel comfortable.

Frankly, I wish you hadn't have said that quote above, I know that the B.S. you get is often piled high here, but I had always thought of you as a good spokesman for your views and you took whatever dished out and answered in a logical way that spoke volumes from your views. Sad to see you go Finsky, but if that is your wish, no need to announce it first as you did here - say goodbye to people you have made friends with (or not) and then please feel free to choose to end your membership, I'll gladly approve that and the forum software will erase your membership if that is truly what you want. None of that is my wish, but it seems to be yours.

I wish you well, but the days of me standing up for you are now over - I have fought long and hard, often explaining over and over why you are a grumpy ole' man to the members. In hind-site, I see you never needed my help, you are a big boy capable of handling himself and my making excuses for you is futile. Sorry to see you go, and I surely wouldn't boot you unless you toss some zingers on the way out - sorry again you feel this way, but if you think this forums members are 200 years behind the time, maybe this truly isn't the place for you any longer.

Best wishes, I don't regret ever sticking up for you, I think you are very knowledged in what you do and say - but obviously you think you are beating your head against the wall here, and even a thick head can get damaged if you bang it against the wall too often. Best wishes Finsky whether you stay or go, I wish you well.



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Shawn
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2007, 06:12:29 PM »

Finsky,

Really dont know what you are trying to say and would probably think this thread is not going anywhere.
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2007, 09:04:17 PM »

Kittaa te ajaski avian sinun auttaa. I KIRJAIN koetella hukka kotona sinun laivavouro.I KIRJAIN jalkisaados ei unohtaa sinun advice. You hankkia kokoonpantu we noyrtya student,but kopea beekeeper.

            Just a thank you in finmans native tounge.
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Finsky
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2007, 12:13:48 AM »

Finsky,

Really dont know what you are trying to say and would probably think this thread is not going anywhere.

That old stupid answer  cheesy

.
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Finsky
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2007, 12:39:42 AM »

Finsky Says: "Before I leave for ever this forum, I suggest that you take a look into beekeeping history.  RETURNING BACK TO YOUR FUTURE!"

Well Finsky, for nearly 5 years I have gone to bat dozens and dozens of times for you,


Yes, I have mostly liked this forum. But the mesh, which has happened between the styles of beekeeping, is grazy.  We have many cars like Mercedes, Toyota, Opel. You cannot mix the parts. It will not work.

And those eager rookies who deliver hundreds of wrong advices ......should I shoot the advicer or advices ..I prefer to shoot the advicer.

I have seen that the members like natural beekeeping, but where are those Ordinary style beekeepers which want to use newest knowledge.

I am strongly that opinion that when one year old beekeeper ask help, Michael's "nature knows best" style is not right one. He gives often awfull answers, like 200 years had polished away.

And that huge mite discussion here, over and over --- awful, just awful

Thanks that you put my memorial onto forum.

Quote
once losing 2 moderators over your membership

 grin, After all, why din't you kick them onto a r s e before. They were very lazy.



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