Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
November 26, 2014, 12:40:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: You better have that insurance card ready.  (Read 2256 times)
Understudy
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4640


Location: West Palm Beach, Fl


WWW
« on: December 02, 2007, 12:22:19 AM »

With apologies to Brian. I am sure this moron is not typical of others but it seems like Tasers are being abused.

http://www.statesman.com/news/mplayer/other/32386

Sincerely,
Brendhan
Logged

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible
reinbeau
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2502


Location: Hanson, MA and Lebanon, ME


« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 08:53:59 AM »

I've been thinking that for a long time.  That's one badge-heavy jerk there for a police officer.  Tasers seem to be pulled way too quickly (by the badge-heavy), and they're used way too freely.  I'd like to know the outcome of that one.
Logged


- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Click for Hanson, Massachusetts Forecast" border="0" height="150" width="256
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 10:04:30 PM »

Understudy, no offense taken.

reinbeau is correct, that's what we call a badge heavy officer.  Somewhere along the line he's gotten drunk on power.

Cops like that give all the good ones a bad name.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Understudy
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4640


Location: West Palm Beach, Fl


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 11:34:36 PM »

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_7609258

Cop cleared.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
Logged

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15275


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 11:49:53 PM »

doesn't look like the cop used very good judgement......but i also remember my father telling me "this would be a good time to quit talking".  looked like the guy on the ground could have used  that advice!!

ahhhhh
i read your second post.  artfull editing of the video??

The 10-minute video begins as the officer passes a sign clearly showing a speed limit of 40 mph on U.S. Highway 40.
    Gardner pulls over Massey's Dodge SUV and approaches the driver's side window. He twice asks for Massey's driver's license and registration. The second time, the trooper is audibly frustrated.
    After a short argument, Gardner goes to his patrol vehicle and returns to the SUV with a traffic ticket. Massey refuses to sign the citation, insisting that Gardner show him the 40 mph sign.
    "Well, you are going to sign this first," Gardner said.
    After refusing, Gardner asks Massey to exit the SUV, which, at 2:23 minutes into the video, he does.
    The pair walk to the front of the officer's car, where Gardner points his Taser at Massey, ordering him to place his hands behind his back.
    ''What the hell's wrong with you?'' Massey asks, while turning and beginning to walk back to the SUV. Gardner tells the driver to turn around, but he refuses and continues walking away with one hand in his pocket.
    On Friday, Davenport said it was at that point Gardner did not know if Massey had a weapon and had to make a split-second decision whether to use the Taser.


this sheds a different light on it.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 12:32:52 AM »

That first one

http://www.statesman.com/news/mplayer/other/32386

is not related to the second one

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_7609258

The first one happens around Austin Texas and the other one is in Utah somewhere.

Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 02:47:18 AM »

In both cases there were avenues of communication that were ignored or purposely omitted.  A police officer has to make life and death decissions in a split second--I know--I had to do it more than once.  Every time I drew my weapon it was under justifiable shoot situations yet I chose not to shoot because I was observant enough to recognize an oddity to the situation.  That oddity negated the requirement for lethal use of force.  One case was with a man running out of a warehouse he was burlarizing with what looked like a gun in the ready position--I pulled my weapon then realized there was a power cord connected to the "gun."  In another case I almost shot a teenager who thought it would be funny to point a cap gun at a cop.  Luckily I saw the scrolling that toy guns have and realized it wasn't a real threat.

I really object to a cop(s) emptying the ammo clip of the pistol at a suspect.  Reports of 30 shots at a suspect is IMO excessive force.  I was taught 2-3 rounds then recheck the target.  Emptying a clip is panic shooting IMO and denotes a lack of proper training by the agency employing the officer.

Tasers just give a badge heavy cop a non-lethal tool to abuse with unnessary force.  I would not use a taser unless I saw an object that could be used as a weapon.  I've had to take too many knives away from punks, with my bare hands, who thought a knife gave them power (enduce fear) tp believe that a taser is needed as often as it is being used.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 08:10:18 AM »

Ummm, i once watched a video about FBI training, and they're trained to empty the magazine into the suspect, but they're probabla dealing with more serious suspect and are trained that way for that reason.

this is a totally sueable position i'd say, i mean...i usually don't even know where the car insurance is (3 different cars) so i'd need some time to find it, also i keep my license in my rucksack so i'd have to go out to the back of the car and...well if it was this cop, i'd probably die trying, LOL.

although the phrase or saying or even word "racism" is being more than abused this days, doesn't it.....
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15275


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 10:12:02 AM »

Mici, the FBI is trained more like the military.  we are trained that if we have to shoot, shoot to kill. with a handgun, empty the clip........my father taught me a little differently.  he taught me to save one round.  to this day, when i hear shots i count them smiley

  cops have to deal with a different class of people, and they have to keep in mind that they are at the mercy of the courts.  i think it is unfair to the cops and makes their job much harder. 

thanks jerrymac.  didn't realize they were different cases. 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 01:21:22 PM »

I always figgured that if I need to talk to the man (or woman) with the gun, that I'm going to say "Yes, Sir" or "No, ma'am" and not sit there and argue and whine and dig my hole deeper.

I've only gotten 1 ticket in my 17 years of driving, but if I do and think that I am in the right, then the courts can handle it.

If my kids argue with me it only goes worse for them, and figure that it is probably the same with the cops.  A little respect goes a long way. 

Then again, I'm not a minority and I also follow the laws pretty well, so I don't have a lot of experience that way.

Rick
Logged

Rick
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 01:25:47 PM »

  A little respect goes a long way.

That works both ways you know.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 02:26:18 PM »

  A little respect goes a long way.

That works both ways you know.

I always treated the people I came across with respect until they gave me cause

The cops in both clips asked for the license and proof of insurance only twice, in quick succession, before going off the handle--that IMO is very unprofessional.  I've had traffic stops where the person stopped was so nervous that it took them 5 minutes to get the requested materials out of the wallet or wherever.  That's one of the reason I think both cops overreacted.

As to the FBI, they work on the assumption that a dead victim can't testify against them.  I've always found the FBI be egotistical, glory hounds, who often wait for the local police to solve the crime and the jump in and claim the credit.  At the community Law Enforcement level the FBI is not highly respected.  The FBI and those they train are also notorious for emptying their weapons and never having hit what they were shooting at.  Firing a few rounds, assessing and adjusting, means if the targets not down you can still respond to a threat with a loaded weapon--it also slows you down to more rational thought.   The fire every round school came into being when the FBI switched from revolvers to semi-automatics.  The theory being that it was much easier to reload a semi-auto than it was a wheel gun.  Too often it leaves a police officer open to return fire (death) after his weapon is empty.

This is one area where I'm with Brendhan's thoughts that he should be the teacher instead of the student with the Master Beekeepers Course.  I think the whole school of thought on what is a real threat needs to be re-examined.  Shooting a man  who has a knife with a gun, IMO, is an overreaction.  A Taser will do,  I've taken a good number of knives away from people (I have the scars to prove it) and never once thought of pulling my pistol--it wasn't the same degree of threat.  Too many cops are taught to react to any threat with excessive force, such as the occasional report of some cop killing somebody who was just reaching for his wallet.

I'll end my tirade.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15275


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 03:39:49 PM »

sometimes it's hard to keep the mission in mind and leave the personalities and preconceived ideas out.  i have known FBI guys that complain that by the time they are called into a case, it if FUBAR and the local cops spend all time in CYA operations.  both sides have legitimate complaints, but they do not help get things done.

perhaps the kind of suspect being shot at, has something to do with the fire discipline used?
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 10:27:12 PM »

sometimes it's hard to keep the mission in mind and leave the personalities and preconceived ideas out.  i have known FBI guys that complain that by the time they are called into a case, it if FUBAR and the local cops spend all time in CYA operations.  both sides have legitimate complaints, but they do not help get things done.
perhaps the kind of suspect being shot at, has something to do with the fire discipline used?
Shooting a firearm accurately and effectively is a discipline--the act of emptying the clip is not discipline and seldom effective, just the opposite.

The FBI doesn't usually get called into cases, they insert themselves, uninvited.  If it is a new worthy case and it can somehow be aced into a federal case they just show up at your door, flash their badges, and demand your case files.  If you're lucky they'll make copies of you files instead of taking it with them.  I admit that there are some police departments that couldn't find a candle in a jack-o-lantern when it comes to serious investigations but that's what the Sheriff's Office is for--The Sheriff has a duty to assume any case within his county if he doesn't believe the it is being handled well.
I.E.  I know of one case where a estranged husband ran his ex and her new beau down with his jeep.  The temporary chief (very inexperienced) was going to charge the estranged husband with reckless driving.  The Sheriff said, "I don't think so," and took over the murder investigation and got a conviction for 2nd degree.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 01:30:26 AM »

I.E.  I know of one case where a estranged husband ran his ex and her new beau down with his jeep.  The temporary chief (very inexperienced) was going to charge the estranged husband with reckless driving.  The Sheriff said, "I don't think so," and took over the murder investigation and got a conviction for 2nd degree.

No. He was temporarily blinded buy the sight and it was a totally thought out accident. Or possibly premeditated loss of control.

Or maybe... Just maybe they jumped out in front of him to stop him and let him know she was leaving.
Or maybe.... they jumped out in front of him to frame him for their murder when it was really suicide.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 1.008 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page November 24, 2014, 12:26:49 AM
anything