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Author Topic: Rabbat size difference  (Read 1998 times)
deantn
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« on: November 22, 2007, 11:17:29 AM »

After searching around the net for an answer to the following question I've had little to no luck getting an answer.
What is the size difference between manufacturers of supers of the rabbat that is cut in them? I've found out the rabbat of the Dadant super is 5/8th inch deep but for the other manufacturers can't find any information about how deep the cut their supers.
So if anyone has an answer for me I would appreciate it very much.
Have even sent emails to them and only answer I received was from Dadant, which I am partial too anyway for their fast service and good equipment.
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2007, 07:36:55 AM »

5/8 is the most common i think.
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deantn
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 08:38:10 AM »

5/8 is the most common i think.

Thanks for the reply
That is the impression I'm under also, but it seems like a certain company makes their deep supers with a different size cut so that is where the argument comes from.
 Mixing other companies supers will then mess up beespace.
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 10:05:41 AM »

if your deep is not 9 5/8 then that would also come into play. also the frame size.
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deantn
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 08:15:59 PM »

All supers are factory built, not assembled of course, so that isn't the problem.
I'm just trying to clear up an argument about mixing different brands of supers and hive bodies.
So far only one manufacturer has even bothered to answer my email to them and all of theres are a 5/8" rabbet, the one that I need to hear from hasn't answered any of the emails sent to them, so a large order from our assoc. won't be going to them this coming January. But guess they have enough of that so why answer a question when asked of them, only want to receive orders and answer them.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2007, 08:16:49 PM »

Most are 5/8" for all of them.  Walter T. Kelly has them 3/4" on the deeps to allow for a special metal rest that sticks up 1/8".
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
deantn
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 06:18:24 AM »

Most are 5/8" for all of them.  Walter T. Kelly has them 3/4" on the deeps to allow for a special metal rest that sticks up 1/8".


Thank you Michael that is what I've been waiting to see in writing. That is what is causing the argument around our assoc. and Kelly won't answer any of my requests to settle this dispute.
  Now I can finish writing my paper to show the assoc. as to why mixing different manufacturers equipment doesn't really matter as they all believe in using only medium depth supers for all of their hives. Except me I build my own deep supers and they are built on the Dadant plans for hive bodies.
Thanks again.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 06:52:15 AM »

The other issue is the size of the box and the size of the frames.  These seem a bit inconsistent.  Kelley says theirs are 9 5/8" (box)  and 9 1/4" (frame) and that appears to be true (although I haven't bought any recently).  Some of the others, however advertise that their boxes are 9 1/2" and their frames are 9 1/8".  I assume this is true, but since I don't use deeps anymore I've only gotten them in the past from Dadant and Kelly and Western Bee Supply but all of those were back in the 70's and they were all 9 5/8" then.  I probably bought one from Mann Lake sometime but I'd have to see if it's still around and not cut down.  Deeps seem to vary in size a bit.

Mediums do seem to be more consistent in size.  But that's not the reason I use them, just another advantage.  Smiley
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
deantn
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 07:34:59 AM »

Thanks again.
Well all of the equipment is only three years old at max so no problem with those issues.
And all of it was ordered from Kelly at the time and any other orders were from Kelly.
Now we have a very big order that we are planning to do in Jan. and with this info I will be able to convince the "older" beeks that we can get woodenware from diifferent companies and still have no "beespace" problems.
Kelly dooesn't seem to want to discount anything for a large order so I believe we need to shop around and get the best price for the best woodenware and other supplies that the assoc. is going to order.
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Fish
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 10:15:07 PM »

deantn, I just received a hive body from Walter Kelley as well.  The height of the box measured 3/16" short of 9 5/8 inch.  I intended to use the hive body as a template in order to create more of my own.  I called Kelley to investigate.  They stated that frames fitting in the box were contingent on placing the tin rabbet that should be included when you order a hive body from them.  This will give you the 3/16" rise that you need.  I told them I used a nine frame spacer.  They told me to put the spacer on top of the tin rabbet.  The metal on metal contact, according to the rep, will cut down on propolis under the frame. 
It seems to me to work.  The best I can tell they work well with boxes that I milled myself and hive bodies from other suppliers. 
The people at Kelley were very helpful.  I suggest you do as me and give them a call if you have any questions.  Now that Dadant has abandoned their KY branch Walter Kelley is our closest, and quickest, supplier.
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deantn
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 07:16:07 AM »

deantn, I just received a hive body from Walter Kelley as well.  The height of the box measured 3/16" short of 9 5/8 inch.  I intended to use the hive body as a template in order to create more of my own.  I called Kelley to investigate.  They stated that frames fitting in the box were contingent on placing the tin rabbet that should be included when you order a hive body from them.  This will give you the 3/16" rise that you need.  I told them I used a nine frame spacer.  They told me to put the spacer on top of the tin rabbet.  The metal on metal contact, according to the rep, will cut down on propolis under the frame. 
It seems to me to work.  The best I can tell they work well with boxes that I milled myself and hive bodies from other suppliers. 
The people at Kelley were very helpful.  I suggest you do as me and give them a call if you have any questions.  Now that Dadant has abandoned their KY branch Walter Kelley is our closest, and quickest, supplier.

Thanks very much for this, exactly what I've been looking for.
This piece of info is whats been needed to finish writing my paper for talk on hive differences and beespace involved in them.
Thanks again.
Since Dadant moved Brushy Mtn. would be closer to me than Kelly but we will see who has the best prices and shipping for all the equipment involved. Keep reading Brushy might have free shipping this month so might be best option, have to wait and see. Going to their site and check now.
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2007, 11:43:27 AM »

makes sense to me that if you're building your own to do away with the tin rabbit.
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Fish
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 08:45:20 PM »

I never used the tin rabbet in building my own.  I wanted to use what kelley gave me as a template.  I will have to adjust the dimensions accordingly in order to lose the rabbet and keep the spacer.  It shouldn't be too difficult.  Just have to make sure you start your box joint cuts from the top in order to avoid excess near the rabbet.
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deantn
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2007, 09:01:29 AM »

Exactly, building your own equipment is really the only way to go.
Mine are built with "dovetail" instead of box joints, neater looking and since I've got the jig for doing why not.

Thanks again for all the info and still hoping for more if anyone has any more.
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