Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 25, 2014, 10:05:35 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hive make-up and package bees  (Read 3650 times)
Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« on: November 30, 2007, 08:50:09 AM »

Okay, time to get serious about the hives I am adding next year. I admit to be being a bit nervous, since this is supposed to be a cash crop sideline business, but at this point the costs seem to far outweigh the payoff (at $2 a pound, which is the going wholesale rate in OKlahoma. If I sell retail then there are the sales tax issues and red tape I don't want to deal with). I am "Hopeful" that once everything is set up that this will eventually make money for my family.

BUt down to business.

I wish to add about 20 more hives next spring (bringing the total to 32) and need to ask a few questions, and put forth a concern or two. First, my friend says that I can forget about making any surplus honey with those new hives the first year. Is this true? If so, we will still move forward, but with the knowledge that the first year is a throw-away year.
My next question is, since I am starting from scratch with these hives, will I be okay to go with the Mann Lake PF120 frames? I hope the bees will accept it. These hives will be about 75 miles away from home and I will probably visit them once a month. How does this play into my decisions?

Next, packaged bees or nucs? There seem to be more apiaries selling packages than nucs, and the nucs seem much more expensive. Also, the package bees come in three, four and five pound swarms. Is there any advantage in buying a larger swarm? If I have a hive all set up, then what advantage is a nuc box? Will I get honey this year if I go with a five pound swarm over a three or four pound? Or will the queen populate the hive so fast that it makes no difference and I am wasting money on a larger package? I have also found a real discrepancy in pricing. Some sell packages for $48 and others appear to sell the same package for $100; what gives? Who should I get my bees from? I have been told by some to avoid southern bee farms because of AHB concerns and mites. I have also been told that it makes no difference, except to avoid Texas and Florida bees, while others say it makes no difference at all.

PLease, no posts saying that I would do better working at Mc Donald's part time. I hear this with any business venture. I am committed to this for at least a few years. I am sure there are people who make money raising honey. I am just not sure how, with all the treatments, syrup, frames, foundations, containers, etc.

Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
bassman1977
"King Bee"
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1787

Location: Selinsgrove, Pennsylvania


« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 09:35:25 AM »

Quote
I wish to add about 20 more hives next spring (bringing the total to 32) and need to ask a few questions, and put forth a concern or two. First, my friend says that I can forget about making any surplus honey with those new hives the first year. Is this true? If so, we will still move forward, but with the knowledge that the first year is a throw-away year.
Depends on variables like weather, flows, bee type, etc.  I've had packages that made just enough for winter and I've had packages that gave me 100+ lbs in the Fall. 

Quote
These hives will be about 75 miles away from home and I will probably visit them once a month. How does this play into my decisions?
You may find that you'll be visiting them more often than that.  I wouldn't make any firm decisions about how often to visit them.  They may need more attention than that and probably will need to if they are building up fast.  Sometimes they can draw out boxes lightening quick.  I have seen boxes drawn out in a week.

Quote
Next, packaged bees or nucs? There seem to be more apiaries selling packages than nucs, and the nucs seem much more expensive. Also, the package bees come in three, four and five pound swarms. Is there any advantage in buying a larger swarm?

Nucs you will get drawn frames.  Packages, unless you you start them out on already drawn foundation, may start on starter strips, undrawn foundation (pick your poison), etc.  With nucs though, you probably don't have to wait for brood, eggs, etc.

Quote
Will I get honey this year if I go with a five pound swarm over a three or four pound? Or will the queen populate the hive so fast that it makes no difference and I am wasting money on a larger package?

Personally, I would do a 2 lbs package if they are available.  That's my preference though.  They are kind of hard to find....most are in 3 lbs packages that I've seen.  Having more bees is definitely an advantage, but I don't think it's going to be that big of a deal unless you are in a short summer climate.

Quote
Who should I get my bees from? I have been told by some to avoid southern bee farms because of AHB concerns and mites. I have also been told that it makes no difference, except to avoid Texas and Florida bees, while others say it makes no difference at all.

Try to go local if possible.  They will be more acclimated to your weather.  If you can't, then go with recommended places (I have purchased from Rossman Apiaries in the past).  I wouldn't worry about mites....all hives have beens with some mites.  AHB...I can't answer that...I've bought hives from the south and never had an issue.  You can always requeen if you have an aggressive hive.

Quote
PLease, no posts saying that I would do better working at Mc Donald's part time. I hear this with any business venture.

People are ignorant.  Prove them wrong and keep plugging.

Quote
I am committed to this for at least a few years. I am sure there are people who make money raising honey. I am just not sure how, with all the treatments, syrup, frames, foundations, containers, etc.

If you don't have a bee association in your area, contact a commercial operation and tap their knowledge.  I've done that a good bit and they have been very helpful.

That's just some of my experiences and thoughts.  Others will have other opinions so weigh your choices that best fit what you are doing.

Logged

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(''')_(''')
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 09:45:23 AM »


>I wish to add about 20 more hives next spring (bringing the total to 32) and need to ask a few questions, and put forth a concern or two. First, my friend says that I can forget about making any surplus honey with those new hives the first year. Is this true? --- Generally speaking, yes, the first season is a build up season, but if you have an exceptional flow, you could pull some honey from a first yr hive.  

>... These hives will be about 75 miles away from home and I will probably visit them once a month. How does this play into my decisions? ---Once a month is not enough to keep up with things during good flow times. You will have swarming issues because they wil build faster than you will be able to make room. In a good flow they need to be checked at least once a week.

> Is there any advantage in buying a larger swarm? If I have a hive all set up, then what advantage is a nuc box? ---If you can afford the cost of a larger package generally speaking more bees more honey, but a three lb package will usually be fine. If you have a great queen, that 3lb will grow quickly.

>Will I get honey this year if I go with a five pound swarm over a three or four pound? ---Perhaps, perhaps not. >Or will the queen populate the hive so fast that it makes no difference and I am wasting money on a larger package? ---There are lots of variables here, that question can't be answered 100%.

>PLease, no posts saying that I would do better working at Mc Donald's part time. I hear this with any business venture. ---I was going to suggest Wendy's, bahhhah! grin

>I am committed to this for at least a few years. I am sure there are people who make money raising honey. I am just not sure how, with all the treatments, syrup, frames, foundations, containers, etc. --- You may find yourself a niche. I would suggest no chemicals in your honey, this will bring the price up. A friend of mine found a niche with his honey,his label says Raw honey. Don't prostitute yourself for price. Get your price with a quality product. Great luck to you!!!!


Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 10:11:34 AM »

Honey is a food item. No sales tax....right  huh
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15027


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 10:12:49 AM »

pretty much agree with above.

  once a month for a visit won't do.  you need to feed, make sure you have space, a queen, etc.  later, you'll  need to pull frames of honey (if you get any) more often than once a month in a strong flow.  check to make sure predators (including the 2 legged kind) have not dumped your hives......treat  for mites or whatever......
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
KONASDAD
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2011


Location: Cherry Hill, N.J.


« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 11:00:52 AM »

agree w/ above. The quicker you get built up, the sooner you'll have surplus honey from a hive. The longer your winter, the more true this will become.As such, try to find complete hives for sale locally from another commercial beek or retiring beek. Get plugged into the local club. You'll get inside info on local bees for sure.

In my first year I started two hives from deeps. They drew out another deep and i got about 3 gall of surplus from both hives. This year, I got 13 gallons and enough drawn deeps to supplement three nucs and enough drawn mediums  I left w/ honey and put on top of the nucs from these two hives. Now I have five hives.

and yes, the money all goes out initially. It will take a while to get into the black. Dont forget to keep receipts and take advantage of your losses on  a schedule "c" form. If you do it inside your house, take the deduction for that as well.
As for working at McDonald's, yes its easier initially, but not rewarding in the end.
Logged

"The more complex the Mind, the Greater the need for the simplicity of Play".
randydrivesabus
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1072

Location: Indian Valley, VA


« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 11:26:09 AM »

Honey is a food item. No sales tax....right  huh
in VA there's sales tax on food....I don't know about OK.

My suggestion is to sell retail as much as possible. I don't mean to discourage but wholesale will make it very difficult to make a profit. You would probably make more money from fewer hives and retail sales than what you plan. If there is a farmers market near you that you could sell at you could easily make $5 or more a pound. Have you prepared a formal business plan?
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 11:52:36 AM »

I agree with all the above as well.

One point worth mentioning though is that a hive made from a package is in continual decline of it's population for the first month until brood starts to hatch,  coincidentally this is the same time you are expecting them to draw out comb.  Whereas a nuc will continue to grow it's population during this time and is therefore more likely to produce a surplus.   Yes there is a price difference, but you need to decide your environment and which makes more sense.

Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 12:48:46 PM »

What excellent advice! Yes, OK has sales tax on food items. Sad
Farmer's Markets are usually on Saturday, which is the time I spend in prayer and worship (no religious plug intended Smiley )
There are, however, a couple of flea markets that are open on Sunday. My concern is that the cost of a table would offset any profits. MY brother in law's brother has bees and gets $5 lb for his honey, but he ibnklcudes it in with a basket of organic veggies he sells for a total price, and delivers these baskets to "subscribers" once a month. I am not able to do this kind of thing right now.
    So far, we are marketing our honey to stores already bottled, labeled and ready. We are getiing $2.50 for the one pound squeeze bottle and $6 for the 3 lb mini-jug. The stores are selling these for $3.95 and $8.95, respectively.Makes me think we could get more for it.
I do intend to buy used hives and supers, and have a friend with hundreds of extra ones for $5 each, with frames, but without foundation.

BTW, How long does a guy keep his bees in a nuc before transplanting to a ten frame hive?
Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 12:53:02 PM »

Oh, and does having them in a nuc create problems for putting them in plastic frames? I have heard that you transplant the nuc frames into the hive body, but if they come with wax foundation in the nuc, it seems the bees would then reject the plastic.
Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 13574


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 02:00:39 PM »

>First, my friend says that I can forget about making any surplus honey with those new hives the first year. Is this true?

Some packages will and some won't make a surplus.  It's not generally expected.

> If so, we will still move forward, but with the knowledge that the first year is a throw-away year.

That would be my plan and then if they make a surplus you can enjoy it.

>My next question is, since I am starting from scratch with these hives, will I be okay to go with the Mann Lake PF120 frames?

I've had good luck with them.

> I hope the bees will accept it. These hives will be about 75 miles away from home and I will probably visit them once a month. How does this play into my decisions?

If they have no where to expand except the PF120s they will most likely use them fine.

>Next, packaged bees or nucs? There seem to be more apiaries selling packages than nucs, and the nucs seem much more expensive.

If you're intent is to try to get small cell, and the nucs aren't small cell, you'll be ahead to get the packages.  If you don't care, you'll be ahead to get the nucs.

> Also, the package bees come in three, four and five pound swarms. Is there any advantage in buying a larger swarm?

Three will work fine.

> If I have a hive all set up, then what advantage is a nuc box?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm

Go to the "what nucs are good for" section.


> Will I get honey this year if I go with a five pound swarm over a three or four pound?

It won't make a significant difference.

>does having them in a nuc create problems for putting them in plastic frames?

No.  It's not whether there are wax and plastic, but whether there is any other space for them to fill.  If the only space they have is plastic foundation, they usually fill it fine.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 04:37:50 PM by Michael Bush » Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2007, 02:23:18 PM »

WOW  shocked

Sales tax on food. Can't imagine that. Here there is no tax on food unless you buy from McDonalds or some place like that.

Perhaps you might consider working for Burger King  grin
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
randydrivesabus
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1072

Location: Indian Valley, VA


« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2007, 02:23:47 PM »

another suggestion about marketing your product.....see if you can find any CSA's around your area who may be interested in offering your honey to their subscribers.
Logged
Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2007, 02:37:11 PM »

Uh, what's a CSA? Confederate States Army? Chile Sauce Apologists? Again, my ignorance is made manifest..... huh
Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2007, 03:02:39 PM »

California Sunbather Association
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
randydrivesabus
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1072

Location: Indian Valley, VA


« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2007, 03:57:50 PM »

Community Supported Agriculture. get your google on and check it out.
Logged
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2007, 04:01:48 PM »

Quote
BTW, How long does a guy keep his bees in a nuc before transplanting to a ten frame hive?

42 days.

Really, move them whenever they are 1. almost out of room and 2. they are building up.

..or from Google...Canadian Standards Association..although that was # 4  and doesn't make sense Smiley

-r
Logged

Rick
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2007, 07:05:59 PM »

Why should we have to compete with the mass produced crap that's not raw, not fresh, a combination of who knows what that tastes like crap? Get those prices UP!!!!!
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2007, 10:16:51 PM »

another suggestion about marketing your product.....see if you can find any CSA's around your area who may be interested in offering your honey to their subscribers.

Farmer's Markets are another good place to sell local honey locally.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2007, 12:51:17 AM »

PRICES UP  cheesy SELL SELL SELL grin                                                                                                                                                     http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000091nk7.jpg                                                     http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000093lu9.jpg                                                                          http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000092tt0.jpg                                                       Wink RDY-B
Logged
Angi_H
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 319


Location: Hanford, CA


« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2007, 01:42:25 AM »

I have started up a CSA and it really dosent take any more time. You can deliver for a fee or let them pick up when they can. But they pay ahead for monthly items or pay months in advance for a certain period of time. I have the chicken, duck, quail eggs as well as heirloom veggies and orgainc raised poutry to sale with my packages and want to add honey as well as the bennifits of pollination. I would really look into it. Here in Ca no sales tax on Food. And Honey at farmers markets here go for 6.00 lb.


Angi

Angi
Logged
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 418


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2007, 09:05:11 AM »

I live in Colorado and there is sales tax on food for sure. I think that the state taxes it and each municipality also taxes not sure on how that works. I do know that you need a business licence/sales tax liscence to sell anything retail. I plan to sell out side of the city off of my truck bed if I ever have enough to sell. This would avoid dealing with the city and also dealing with location rental. I also think that I would do internet sales and avoid tax altogether when shipping out side of Colorado. 

In Colorado all of the info that you need to know on this is available at the department of revenue:
http://www.revenue.state.co.us/main/wrap.asp?incl=sitemap
you also want to register a trade name if you want to use a brand name rather than your own name. Maybe even do an LLC for some liability protection.

The part that I am unsure of as of yet is health department and labeling requirements.   Do I have to have my bottling and processing area and equiptment inspected and approved by the local health officials? And what sort of nutritional info and other label requirements are there? I know that with some products there are very specific rules about how things are labeled and what words and terms one can use and even the reletive size of type for things on a label.... In another string there was a discussion of what was raw honey. I know that when it comes to labeling that there are usually specific legal criteria for using terms like raw or organic or pure. I haven't done any research on any of this yet. I haven't had enough honey to worry about it all yet.
Alfred
Logged
MrILoveTheAnts
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 716


Location: Somerdale, New Jersey


WWW
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2007, 12:11:57 PM »

The general rules I go by are: 1lb of bees = either 4000 small bees or 3000 large bees. A full frames worth of wax takes about 3 weeks for the  bees to produce, Of course this varies if the bees are more focused on producing comb. And compare that with a worker bee taking 4 weeks (21 days) to hatch.
So you're not going to get any newborn bees until after the first week. I have personally done 2 frame splits that, 20 days later, resulted in a loan queen bee marching around 2 full frames of capped cells and maybe a hand full of workers. I had to keep a close eye on that hive so they weren't targeted by wax moths which they had been beforehand. Day 22 though everything changed as most of those cells hatched and everything went up form there.

Why are you keeping your hives so far away? I think I'd be afraid of skunks or bears getting into them.

Are you taking advantage of the benefits beehives can offer? Vegetable garden? Fruit trees?
Logged

Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2007, 06:25:00 PM »

Mr. Ants,

I have 12 hives at home on my own property. These will go on a 500 acre organic farm owned by a friend who wants pollinization.


JP,

AS to competing with mass produced garbage honey. This is Oklahoma, and there is very little or no health consciousness here. It is one of the most obese states in the union ("This here's cattle country"). People attend "all you can eat restaurants" such as (and I am not making this up) "The Pigout Palace"  and "The Catfish Roundup" and at home live on potato chips and beer. Of course there are exceptions, but this appears to be the rule, as many of us have tried to put on health clinics to no avail, attended only by little old ladies looking to get out for an evening. Maybe if we put a giant screen television with an OU Sooners football game on and give them healthy snacks and raw honey hey will have positive references.....if the Sooners win.

I have local beeks offering to sell me raw honey for a buck and a half a pound. No joke! This will be a marketing challenge.
Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2007, 07:54:30 PM »

I have local beeks offering to sell me raw honey for a buck and a half a pound. No joke! This will be a marketing challenge.

Why on earth are you trying to break into a market that doesn't exist??   Sounds like a recipe for failure.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2007, 09:38:10 PM »

Everybody that I know that has been successful at honey sales -got into bees for the love of keeping bees -people see these things - when you are selling your product you are selling more of who you are and your love of the bees-the money and success just come as a bonus-love of money is not what will make you a great beekeeper -But you dont really talk about being a good beekeeper -there is no money to speak of in keeping bees it is more of self expression and a way to see life clearer-there is and always will be wholesale honey( which should be around$1 dollar a pound )but people will be willing to pay you what your time and efforts are worth if they know and believe that the honey they are buying came from a better place -without short cuts taking for the most the fastest  cool RDY-B
Logged
Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2007, 11:09:08 PM »

>>>>Why on earth are you trying to break into a market that doesn't exist??   Sounds like a recipe for failure.<<<<<

It is definely a small market, for sure. That is a good thing when you are a small time beeperson. However, There is also no doubt that I have truned down enough offers to buy my honey that I cold have sold it all the first week if I wanted to sell at $1.50 lb in the 5gal bucket. I am looking for a niche market, not a major one. I am also counting on a couple of other factors:

1- The cheap land in Oklahoma is bringing many people from other states who are more health conscious.
2- The state is tired of the poor reputation about its health, especially in the areas of heart disease and diabetes. Oklahoma wants to grow up. They just havent yet. The media and the government are trying to effect change in the poor health habits of Oklahomans, which they know is driving up health care costs and are a burden on the consumers.

My plan is to be larger when the market grows, but to stay within my realistic budget until then. I agree that I should sell my honey higher. It is a bit problematic that others selling raw honey have no marketing or people skills and sell themselves short on price.

rdy-B,
Sorry if it sounds like I'm a bleep and only in it for a buck. But that is only a partial reality of the situation. I like the bees, the challenge, and the health benefits of both honey and beekeeping itself. My actual trade is classic car restoration and teaching body shop at a private school. That is very unhealthy work, and will certainly lead to an early grave. I also write religious books, but there is no money in that, so it is really more of non-profit a ministry. So when I looked at alternative carreer and farming oppties beekeeping just sort of "happened". My wife wanted to get into bees, so I bought her a hive last Christmas. It turns out she is allergic to bees, and since I am not, I decided to give it a go. A guy had a bee farm for sale for a song, so I jumped at it. It is possible that I might eventually write a book about how I have done absolutely everything wrong that a beek can do wrong.

Now that I have said all that,  How long should I keep bees in a nuc before transplanting them to a ten frame hive? An if I use the frames from the nuc is that going to be a problem with my plastic frames?
Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
MrILoveTheAnts
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 716


Location: Somerdale, New Jersey


WWW
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2007, 11:20:47 PM »

Hives in a Nuc, I would say once they start building on the last frame you should be safe to upgrade them. (Nuc's are the 5 frame boxes right?) Generally when they're 80% full on anything you give them more room. Also remember to rotate frames since they don't alway build out the lower edges to the side frames.
Logged

Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2007, 11:24:40 PM »

Now that I have said all that,  How long should I keep bees in a nuc before transplanting them to a ten frame hive? An if I use the frames from the nuc is that going to be a problem with my plastic frames?

How long do you want to keep them there?  You can transfer them anytime after they become "established."  
Mixing wood with plastic will work if: 1. plastic is the only thing they're given, 2. air out or mask the plastic odor (vanilla in sugar syrup spray), 3. you keep tearing out the "wierd" comb until they get it right, 4. you have a high pain tolerence.

Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2007, 12:39:18 AM »

IF its a nuc you bought (four or five frames ) they should be transfered right-away so they can build up -If it is a nuc you are nurturing from a split or divide or as simple as two frames of brood& bees and a queen-they must have built up sufficient to fill the nuc box-there are some keepers that use five frame nucs for there regular boxes (not recommended for you ) yes you can mix and match your frames and there will be times you will have to use what ever is handy it is ok  more to be reveald  Smiley RDY-B
Logged
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 418


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2007, 10:19:29 AM »

   Market and price are an interesting thing. When I read this about the price of honey it reminds me of my own business. I am a massage therapist. I have the same issues in the market for my services. There are many who charge much less for their services than me in this area. It drives down the price. Most of them are not as well educated and/or are not full time professionals and can afford to charge less. I work hard to maintain and improve my skills and I work full time at my profession. It shows in my work.

   But many customers are unsophisticated about massage therapy, much like those who will buy 1 a pound honey 'product' in the store and don't understand why any one would buy honey for any more than that. Many never get massage just as many never buy any honey good or bad. Therefore I cater to those who have 'seen the light' as it were and appreciate the difference between what I call a "Swedish rub down' massage and very good therapeutic bodywork. I also work hard at educating the public about the value of good massage therapy and the differences between good and not so good bodywork. By doing these things I have set myself up as a 'Premium' massage therapist.

    I used to live in Boulder Colorado the 'new age center of the universe' and it was easy to sell my premium product there. I now live in Loveland Colorado which is an amazingly different market. But I have stuck to my principals and not succumbed to under selling myself and over time I have created a market for my services. I have written articles for the local paper and a local health publication. I offer educational seminars. I am also involved in educating other therapists in order to raise the bar for the entire profession. I take care to always do great work with people and constantly work at learning and improving my own skills. Once folks have tried my massage therapy they are no longer interested in a Swedish rub down.

    As a general rule I find that the more that I charge for my services, within certain limits, the more they are appreciated and taken seriously. I think that the same thing will apply to the marketing of Honey. People who are in the know will have no problem paying more for a premium product. This of course assumes that you have taken care to assure that it is premium, quality first always. Others will come around with a little educating about, and tasting, your product and why it is more desirable. Over time you can create brand recognition which will set your product apart from others. Some people still won't be interested and never will and that is ok because the ones that do 'get it' will line up to buy every drop you have at whatever price you charge for it.

Alfred
Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2007, 10:24:33 AM »

> Now that I have said all that,  How long should I keep bees in a nuc before transplanting them to a ten frame hive? And if I use the frames from the nuc is that going to be a problem with my plastic frames?

Since we're in winter now you wouldn't transfer them now, so they can winter adequately, unless you were Brendhan and lived where he does. Any other time 90% drawn in a nuc is when I would transfer.


Mixing and matching may cause some resistance issues but like it has been mentioned, leave your plastic frames out so they can weather a little bit, to help remove that plastic smell.
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2007, 10:54:47 AM »

Alfred, well said.  Quality products......priceless.

Off topic a little, bear with me, but must speak my thoughts.  I operated a greenhouse nursery on my property for about 14 years.  I had top quality plants, with tons of TLC, propogated myself from seeds and cuttings.  Excellent product and it shined through.  BUT...along came the huge nurseries that were a lost leader at places like Home Depot, and so on.  Their prices were so low compared to mine, that eventually, about 50% of my clients finally went to their inferior products.  The smart ones remained and had beautiful gardens, thanks to the quality that I produced here.  I finally became tired of the tons of work, with very little monetary return and it became work instead of pleasure.  So I retired the operation (never looking back).  I achieved incredible skill and knowledge of greenhouse plant propogation, I still have my greenhouse, along with the furnace and all the growing lights and benches.  I still grow my own beautiful plants.   I am grateful for this opportunity in my life to become excellent at what I do in this regard.  If it were not for those clients that loved my product, I would not be where I am with horticulture as I am now.  Not to say that I am the best, but I possess a skill that took me many, many years of research and study to hone.  I know what you are speaking of, Alfred.  Have a wonderful and beautiful day, love our life we live.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Hopeful
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 158


Location: Central Oklahoma


« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2007, 12:48:33 PM »

Thanks for the "bleep" whomever did that. Smiley I did not realize that was a dirty word until I saw the bleep.

Yes, rdy-, If I have nucs it will be bought ones to save time in building a colony. The idea would be to increase the odds of getting a honey harvest the first year in my new hives. From what I see, nobody is selling bees right now anywhere, so I guess I'll wait until spring.


Alfred,
Well said, and that is my plan. The website for the apiary includes the health benefits of pollen, whch includes depression, headaches,  prostate health and many other practical and applicable benefits. I am also considering adding a pollen harvest ion addition to the honey. But I know the traps are not cheap, at least not the good ones. Being a Seventh-day Adventist (extremely health-conscious people), I have a "captive " market aready, even though my religion is not that popular in Oklahoma. The local SDA health food store has already filled the shelves with my honey and they are selling fast. They found out that the other "raw" honey they were selling had been heated to 150, so they replaced it with my product. We also sold 60 pounds to a SDA cafeteria and they ran out in two weeks. I have had several requests for pollen and even some for royal jelly. But as I undrstand it, royal jelly is not a viable option for American beekeeers due to the specialized nature and many hours of work involved.
Logged

"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.535 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page July 12, 2014, 02:45:12 PM