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Author Topic: Leave new deep on over winter?  (Read 4094 times)
EOHenry
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« on: August 23, 2004, 09:52:21 AM »

This is my first year beekeeping so I am still learning a lot.  I just put a new deep super on top of 4 other deeps  I have.  After 1 week, the girls are drawing out the comb good.  I added the new deep after I observed the other two top deeps were full of capped honey.  I need tto know how much honey to leave over winter and if I can leave the new deep on after I take the top 2 deep supers off to harvest honey next week.?  We  are just starting to get goldenrod in bloom. My bottom two deeps have brood in them now. Will the queen move down into the lower one for winter and do I take the top one off smiley  When do I do that?  Thaanx for any help Cheesy   I have learned alot from this forum.
EOHenry
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golfpsycho
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2004, 10:26:44 AM »

Sounds like the colony is doing great.  Absolutely leave the new super on if they are making honey.  After extracting, I would put the wet supers back on over an inner cover and let them clean them out as well.  They'll haul whatever is left back down and store it "inside" the hive.  

My plan for wintering is to squeeze them back down into two deeps as brood rearing slows in the fall.  The particulars for your area, you are best getting from someone near you.  I'm sure there are forum members in your area that can help you.   At that time, I'll determine how heavy they are, put some grease patties on them, and get a good mite count to see if I need fogging.  

The way your colony is working, I sure wouldn't do anything to slow them down right now.
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Finman
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2004, 11:14:06 AM »

Quote from: EOHenry
This is my first year beekeeping so I am still learning a lot.  I just put a new deep super on top of 4 other deeps  I have.  


In this case when you add  a new empty  super, put it allways between brood and honey.  It accelerates bee's motivation to gather honey. Also honey will rippen in right order and you can take ripen honey from hive away.

Quote
I need to know how much honey to leave over winter ...


In Finland we take honey away and give sugar instead of honey.


In Finland 2 super hive consumes 20 kilos crystal sugar between September and May.  You have shorter winter there, at least 2 months and winter is warmer.  I leave about 5 kg honey for winter and 20 kg sugar.


But I guess, your hives are not insulated. When I started to use insulted supers, it saved 30% winter sugar. Now I use polystytere boxes.

I think that your hives consumes 15 kg during winter. Am I right? Langstroth contains 25 kg honey as full. Bees do not waste food if they have more or less.

Your hive is gathering well.  Keep allways empty space for brood and honey. If they have lack of free space, they will swarm.

Quote
My bottom two deeps have brood in them now. Will the queen move down into the lower one for winter and do I take the top one off smiley  When do I do that?  Thaanx for any help Cheesy   I have learned alot from this forum.
EOHenry


Ther winter ball starts there where last brood was. They start overwintering from bottom.

The winterball will be as big as brood area.

It is usefull to keep the lowest super empty, so bees store there pollen and it has reservoir for extra honey when it is good honey flow.  

If your colony has allmost 2 super brood, colony can rearch 6-7 super's volume.


One full Langstroth contain 25 kg honey. Farrar has 15 kg. You can calculate how must they have collected.
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Robo
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2004, 11:18:01 AM »

I agree.  Leave it on, especially if they are drawing it out and you have a flow going on.

There is no magic number of supers.  Golf likes two, I usually lean towards 3,  but neither is wrong Cheesy

Just make sure you don't move stuff around too late in the fall that would cause a split of the stores.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2004, 01:05:53 PM »

Try these links for some local help, a metor perhaps. I recommond one highly. Belonging to a club has saved my bacon this year.

Michigan Beekeepers Association
Roger Hoopingarner
2712 Fontaine Tr.
Holt, MI 48842
Ph: (517) 699-2428
Email: roghoppy@msu.edu
Web: www.mi-beekeepers.org

Not sure how close this fellow is to you but he might be able to set you on the road to local help.

I am on the sunrise side of the state and had a fellow from the west  Michigan beekkeepers give me lots of starting advice but an unable at the preasent time able to find their web site.

 Cheesy Al
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Finman
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2004, 02:59:14 PM »

Quote from: Robo
I agree.  Leave it on, especially if they are drawing it out and you have a flow going on.

There is no magic number of supers.  Golf likes two, I usually lean towards 3,  but neither is wrong Cheesy

Just make sure you don't move stuff around too late in the fall that would cause a split of the stores.


What are you thinking? Number of supers on winter?

It is not "like" matter, neither "magic" matter. Of course, if you want it so, it is.

If hive is too tight, it runs hot during winter.

If it has  too much space, it  spend winter food and it has moisture prpblems (depending on climate)

You live quite in south. Owerwintering cannot be problem.

In Finland many like that it is one super on winter. But if it too tight, it is easy to find, because bees are hanging on outer wall.
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Robo
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2004, 04:04:17 PM »

Not quite sure what your point is.

My comment was based on the fact that he will be removing 2 deeps which leaves 3.  Depending on how they are working, he could decide to leave the third for them to continue to work or force them down to 2.

My point was that most around here either winter in 2 deeps or 3 deeps and it is a matter of preference.  

My experience has been that with an upper entrance,  moisture is not a problem regardless of the number of supers.  The bees create the moisture by consuming the honey,  and  with an upper entrance, the warm moist air exits the hives and does not condensate on the inner cover.
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EOHenry
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2004, 05:49:03 PM »

Thanx for all the advice!  It helps  to know someone who's been there, done that.  I plan on leaving 3 deeps on for the winter, but didn't know if I should harvest both of the deeps I now have and hope they build up enuff honey from the goldenrod to get them thru the winter.  I started with 1 deep that I put a nuc in that I bought for $75. the first week of June. Shortly there after, I bought all of a bk that lost his colony over the winter and did not want to continue.  The deeps were all drawn out so I put them on top of my single deep.  The queen must have gone crazy laying eggs in the older deeps. I ck the hive 2-3 times in the next few weeks and they cleaned up the old comb and started filling them with honey. Last week I noticed that the top 2 deeps were full of capped honey and that I better get some foundation in the other new deep I had.  Happy to see they are working it so hard already Smiley . Just didn't know how much to take or leave for over winter.
Thanx!  Cheesy
Henry

ps
 Any west mich. keepers out there?
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golfpsycho
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2004, 05:59:43 PM »

Must be something lost in the translation.  I think we use the term supers and don't discern the difference between brood boxes and honey boxes.  Supers to me, are extra boxes on top.  I usually don't care if when they are making honey, the queen moves up before the bees push her back down.  (I believe in unlimited brood boxes for extracted honey)  Finman, he is going to harvest 2, he still has a flow going on.  He needs room for them to store the goldenrod harvest.  Many leave the goldenrod harvest on as feed.  (its a very pungent and strong honey)  When the fall flow ends, he can leave it on, he can harvest it and squeeze them down.  He can take it all and feed them.  Late in the year, it's not a bad idea to get some stores in the brood boxes.  They do it naturally as the natural clock in the hive takes over, but a little push in the right direction cant hurt.  He has alot of options which don't require him to decide 2 or 3 deeps right now, besides the fact that a flow is going on.  As busy as this colony seems, I might even add at least one wet super right back on top.  They sound like honey monsters to me.   When they are going hard, I like to press them.  In addition, he is in Michigan.  While you may consider that south, I feel it just a few lines on the map south of dog sled country.  hehehehe.  Winters are long and cold up that way.
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Finman
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2004, 10:12:22 PM »

Quote from: golfpsycho
Supers to me, are extra boxes on top.  I usually don't care if when they are making honey, the queen moves up before the bees push her back down.  (I believe in unlimited brood boxes for extracted honey)  Finman, he is going to harvest 2, he still has a flow going on.  




Thank you Golf. I have believed that box=super.  Now I understand, supers=on the top (super star!)



I just woder, when I have followed that forum, you feed sugar water all the summer to bees and then you let honey for colonies.  Cool

In Finland we feed sugar for winter and take honey away wink
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golfpsycho
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2004, 10:35:40 PM »

Many of the people in the forum are keeping bees for the first time.  They have no drawn comb, received their colonys late, etc.  So they are trying to build them up into viable colonys as fast as possible by feeding.  And everyone has a real concern about overwintering their bees.  They don't have the resources to make a split or two to recoup winter losses, and package bees seemed difficult to get last year.  Next year, with drawn comb, and enough experience to stay out of em enough to let them do their thing, I think most everyone will be pleasantly suprised by how much honey they get.  It's alot of fun to get a couple boomers going see what the bees are capable of.
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Finman
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2004, 11:24:37 PM »

Quote from: golfpsycho
Many of the people in the forum are keeping bees for the first time.  ..... I think most everyone will be pleasantly suprised by how much honey they get.  It's alot of fun to get a couple boomers going see what the bees are capable of.


I have noticed that for beginners is impossible to understand that colony with good queen needs plenty of space to lay eggs and store honey.  If hive does not have space, swarm escapes and the yield is just gone.

I have met plenty of old beekeepers, who have same problem. They do not give space enough. And it is important in our climate that extra space is situated right.  Many enlarger brood area with violent and it takes drawback.

Of course beginners do not have experience with which speed colony developes and how guickly honey can come in.
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