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Author Topic: Australia elects new Government.  (Read 3382 times)
mick
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« on: November 24, 2007, 07:35:58 PM »

11 years of rampant Fascist Capitalism was ended last night when Kevin Rudd, leader of the Labor Party was elected Prime Minister.

With a swing of 6% in the polls, labor won 83 seats to 58 and picked up 24 seats from the Government.

The now former Prime Minister John Howard lost his seat. Not since 1929 has a reigning Prime Minister been dumped by the Australian people in his own electorate. Monday Morning he will be on the old age pension. The out of touch doddering old fool can quietly fade away like an old curtain.

We now have a leader that will hopefully restore the balance of economic and social wealth in this country. One that wont spend half his time licking the backside of President Bush. Rudd speaks fluent Mandarin so maybe we will end up as a Chinese puppet not a US one.

We also now have our first female Deputy PM. Julia Gillard, an old left wing socialist.

11 years of any Government is way too long. Australia has come to its senses and now has a Labor Government in each State as well as a Federal Labor Government. We are totally Governed by the enemy of the rich exploitative capitalist running dogs. Its time for some payback. We cant chain any of em to the stake, but we might be able to restore the balance between worlers and bosses. Restore this countrys health and education systems, start looking after the elderly once again.

The people are awaiting the announcement of the withdrawl from Iraq of our Troops. We expect the Kyoto agreement to now be signed by Australia. We want action on climate change and greenhouse gasses and the water shortage.

Finally we have been promised a 1st world broadband service to replace the 3rd world situation we find ourselves in.

Im happy, and even happier that all the rich are so miserable this morning. Smiley

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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2007, 08:40:15 PM »

be careful what you are glad for my dear.  can you list the alternatives to capitalism and give me an example of each having worked well?  usually when people rant about the rich and capitalism it is because they have not achieved success yet.  the good thing about capitalism and all that goes with it, is that you still have the opportunity to achieve success.  you may find that under a system that redistributes your wealth, your opportunities are taken also.  i wish you well, but you may look at those countries that have systems most closely mirroring what you say you want.  France, Germany, and England.  you will find that the  reality of socialism did not live up to the expectations.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 11:13:09 PM »

be careful what you are glad for my dear.  can you list the alternatives to capitalism and give me an example of each having worked well?  usually when people rant about the rich and capitalism it is because they have not achieved success yet.  the good thing about capitalism and all that goes with it, is that you still have the opportunity to achieve success.  you may find that under a system that redistributes your wealth, your opportunities are taken also.  i wish you well, but you may look at those countries that have systems most closely mirroring what you say you want.  France, Germany, and England.  you will find that the  reality of socialism did not live up to the expectations.

Socialism's goal is to make everyone equal--equally poor.  You take from the have and give to the have-nots to the point that soon everybody is a have-not.  That is unless the leadership is corrupt and then you still have the haves and have-nots.  IMO, Socialism is for lazy people.

Capitalism frees the spirit and industry of man to achieve whatever he strives for--it requires hard work.  Capiltaolism sets loose the engines of creativity so that invention becomes the norm.  Capitalism is threatened because all the lazy people what to be given what the industriust people have worked to create.

If Capitalism is converted to socialism, creativity and industry shrival in the mind, everyone eventually becomes disatisifed because they all became poor instead of rich, and meanwhile, the government has insured subserviance of the people by removing their means of protest or even self protection.

I'll get off my soap box now.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
mick
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2007, 12:41:31 AM »

Theres three ways people make a lot of money and get rich in this world, as opposed to having a genuinely rich life.

Inherit it.

Win it.

Make it off the backs of underpaid exploited workers, many of whom die or are injured at work and left on the scrap heap.

Even Bill Gates relies on Asian sweat shops to save that .004% of a cent per disc to make that extra buck.

Next time I see someone who has paid taxes all of their working lives, living below the poverty line and unable to afford lifes basics, I must remind myself of how kind capatilism was to them over the last 70 or so years.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2007, 12:47:42 AM »

Quote
Next time I see someone who has paid taxes all of their working lives, living below the poverty line and unable to afford lifes basics, I must remind myself of how kind capatilism was to them over the last 70 or so years.

And here I always thought it was because they didn't persue their dreams but settled for drudgery.  Life is full of choices, one of which is how much you'll put into it and whether you believe in your dreams enough to follow them.  My dream was to be a police officer not a millionaire.  I became one, but it's a dangerous job and I had to retire due to on the job injuries.  With capitalism life is what you choose to make it, not what somebody else insists it be (unless you let it be).
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2007, 07:16:23 AM »

we've had a lot experience with socialism, well i haven't, I'm too young but there are many conversations about it.
but we also had another factor-multinational country and STRONG propaganda. people still don't realise Tito was a bigger criminal than Hitler (at least when it comes to attitude towards us, Slovenes), but this is another topic.

anyways, some say how beautiful it was in socialistic republic of Yugoslavia, everyone had jobs, no one was poor.

but, those that did not have a "red carton" say a completely different story, or those that were already used to work, and already had a house or something.
WE HAD AS MUCH SOCIALISM AS WE HAD MONEY
so, if you had a "red carton" you were somewhere high and thus had more "socialism"
also...EVERYTHING was in short supply.
but our socialism was very hm mm serb-o-centered, basically they stole from us and transported it downwards to Serbs... so it's a different situation.
socialism is a system of rewarding the lazy and not working while punishing the hard working, as simple as that. it's sad that so much socialism is left in our country Sad


still i think capitalism is the best way to go...no, wait second best way to go. the biggest problem are MEDIA, because they really are not MEDIA!!!
i know that 95% people have never heard of distributivism, the alternative to socialism and capitalism. I've heard about it just recently, and i think it's the best way.

back to capitalism..it has worked for millenias and it's human nature. if you look at feudalism closely, it's actually the end phase of capitalism (at least i like to think so) although feudalism is very strict about promoting the "small" people, so it's a bit different.


to sum up, socialism has brought nothing but 60 years of recession to us, after 16 years of independence, slowly the pre-2nd WW busineesman are rising back (now it's their successors, which indicates leadership is partially hereditary)
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reinbeau
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2007, 07:36:09 AM »

Theres three ways people make a lot of money and get rich in this world, as opposed to having a genuinely rich life.

Inherit it.

Win it.

Make it off the backs of underpaid exploited workers, many of whom die or are injured at work and left on the scrap heap.

Even Bill Gates relies on Asian sweat shops to save that .004% of a cent per disc to make that extra buck.

Next time I see someone who has paid taxes all of their working lives, living below the poverty line and unable to afford lifes basics, I must remind myself of how kind capatilism was to them over the last 70 or so years.

So hard work and determination doesn't get you anywhere?  What a depressing country, I thought better of Australia
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2007, 07:40:41 AM »

Oh mick hope that your post count of 666 is nothing to be scared of. grin

I am definetly pro capitalism and totaly against socialism/comunism. Thier is a fine line between the two(socialism and comunism)and I dont want that in my back yard(are you listening hillary).I work my butt off and to see someone achieve as much as I have by doing nothing would drive me insane. Hope all goes well mick but be carefull for what you wish for because it may come true( execpt all the good things you imagine will happen once this goverment is in place).
Universal health care sounds good but the reality of it scares me. Operations that are needed but you don't qualify because you are old and someone younger needs it so they can live on and work hard to make sure the money rolls in for the govt.
Last thing I am saying here because I like mick so much and not going to throw anyone under the bus is " You get out of life what you put into it". just like capitalism.
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2007, 10:52:16 AM »

Ah yes...you will be able to have your earwax and eat it too!!!  grin  tongue

(Sorry, a cheap shot, but just too funny!!!)

From what I interpret from my tassie brother in law, any more socialism down there will put you closer to China than to the US.

Rick
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Rick
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2007, 11:12:49 AM »

Everyone acts as if capitalism is perfect. Its not.. It may/is the best humans can do, but I for one aspire to more. When capitalism promotes more research for baldness/teeth whitening/bad breath/ugly toe nails because it is more profitable than a disease, thats wrong. When we export all of our jobs because a country doesn't have the same child labor laws or environmental standards  and it can be made for less simply to appease share holders, thats is wrong. Persuing profit has entirely replaced business ethics and it may be contributing to our countries inability to compete internationally. I am not advocating other economic philosophies, but to suggest its perfect is not true.
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 12:51:44 PM »

it has always amazed me that people think they have a right to what they have not earned.  mick, if i am rich and my neighbor is poor, am i to blame?  should i give him what i have earned to be "fair"? 

while i agree with KONASDAD that it would be nice if jobs were not exported, i can not blame a business for not wanting to deal with unions and regs in this country.  i also do not mind that they want to appease share holders...i happen to be one  smiley

my  husband is a doc with an HMO.  the non medical folks may go on strike.  why?  the want to have 1 YEAR notice of a firing.  that means that the company either has to keep them on for that year, or pay them for that year.  why would a company put up with crap like that if they don't have to?

mick, you have been fed the resist.com line of thinking.  if you want to be successful, stop fussing about what others have, and go out and get your own.  of course....after you have done that, someone will want to take it and give it to someone who is still fussing.  sad
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 02:16:07 PM »

while i agree with KONASDAD that it would be nice if jobs were not exported, i can not blame a business for not wanting to deal with unions and regs in this country.  i also do not mind that they want to appease share holders...i happen to be one  smiley

I ask rhetorically, not argumentatively, whether it is appropriate for a business to soley appease the shareholder, even if it means the "death" of the company? as in no investment in the future plant and R&D for example. This is the part of capitalism I dont get- it can be profitable to sell off the parts of a company, or transplanting it elsewhere and people lose their jobs. It is also an investment that workers make in a company and it often goes uncompensated. For example, my brother worked for a small software company. He was given paychecks that bounced(eventuallty he got'em) and he wasn't given any raises for years all because the owner asked the employees(about 30) to sacrifice while a fledgling company got off the ground. The owner sold the company for 64million, my brother got a 5K raise and little else. He did get to keep his new job w/ new comopany, others did not, but he really feels cheated. The owners bought themselves lamborghini's for themselves and wives as a symbol of having "made it". Their millionaires and my brother went w/o for years to be a team player. He was given some shares of the company, but those shares were almost worthless as compared to the shares the partners had. The employees knew nothing about the sale and they came in one day and many were walked to the door by armed hired security guards. Great way to treat those people who invested their time and effort in a new company. To me that is as valubable as financial investors.
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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 03:07:54 PM »

look at it from another point of view.  the people who started the company live in a country where they can take risk and start a company.  they might have failed.  your brother lives in a country where he can work in the field of his choice, and can stay in, or leave, a job as he sees fit.  he took a chance and stayed.  he might have made another choice and worked for a different company, or started his own.  the Lamborghini dealer got a good commission.

"fair" is not a word in my vocabulary.  things are never fair or equal.  i doubt it's fair that a guy who dropped out of high school and now puts rivets in ford trucks at 30 bucks an hour, is making double what a guy who spend 6 years in college and has 100 thousand in loan debt.  the college guy decided he didn't want to run a rivet machine all his life. his choice.

as for the outsourcing of many of our manufacturing jobs, you can lay much of the blame on unions.  if unions demand more than the company can provide in a given market, you can not blame the company for looking elsewhere for workers.  many unions have rebelled against the upgrading of factories because automation might cost jobs.  one might imagine that if there had been a barn cleaners union when cars were invented, the barn cleaners unions would have shut down auto production so as not to lose crap shoveling jobs.  what ever happened to all the phone operators?  did they starve in the streets?  add to that the regulations and more to come with international treaties, companies might look to countries like China and India, to save cost.

the capitalist side of all these green regulations is a booming business in green products and carbon credits.  in fact, i have enough land that i might just let folks pay me to plant a tree or two.  as long as they feel good about it........smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 03:17:39 PM »

God, our Lord, gave to the Spanish people three virtues. The Spanish would be Good, Clever and Socialist. But He thought that with that three virtues simultaneous the Spanish would have a privileged position in the world. So He ruled that we, the Spanish, only would have two virtues simultaneously. So, if one Spanish is good and socialist, he is not clever. If he is clever and socialist, he can´t be good...

I can´t find a socialist good and clever.
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2007, 03:24:56 PM »

Quote
I can´t find a socialist good and clever.

oh, well, you haven't met Hillary!  (wonder if i can get my whole fist down my throat?)   tongue
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2007, 06:24:19 PM »

Nobody seems to mention the taxes  and cost of compliance with so many regulations as a reason many companies leave here.Every one wants a good job but nobody wants a factory in their back yard. It's tough  to have it both ways.

You have to remember every time there is a government program to administer,there comes along with it a buracracy to do it. A whole bunch of people collecting pay out of the tax money that produce nothing as far as a benefit in the program. They end u[p with better health care and pay than the people that they are supposed to be helping.
One good example is the US Dept of energy! All the tax money that Department has spent over the years has not produced one drop of oil,coal or natural gas. just a lot of costly regulation and hot air.
The money that agency has had,they should have been able to engineer a economic alternative to  carbon fuels.
In the US ,if you want something screwed up,let the government take care of it for you.
They have been horrible stewards of the 15 percent of the money they take from every working mans paycheck for his retirement years.
They have been just as bad managing all the tax money collected on fuels for highways.,and they tax cigarretes terribly to supposedly pay for Health care of people who chose to smoke.
We know that money went everywhere but where it should have.
The list could go on and on! government is not the best investment for your money.
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 08:30:04 PM »

Ken, I agree with you! Investment in government programs is like investing in the lottery. Lots of overhead and not much return on investment. Social Security is the worse. I want the same plan as Congress has.

Steve

 
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2007, 08:50:07 PM »

Steve,Wouldn't that be nice!
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mick
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 04:19:42 AM »

I am glad I got a few of you off the couch that resides in the living room of the house your parents sweated and bled for, so that you can live in its expanse and ponder what life is really about. Good to see a few of you putting in.

You should re read the earlier post about what a takeover actually means to those involved.
 
Ken, I cant help but laugh. Just how much should a company think is enough before moving off shore? The answer is just enough to please the shareholders and ensure the directors jobs, uck the workers, they are a tool and dont let em forget it. 100 million makes everyone happy, 200 million makes the MD rich. Its just a game to them.

Our new PM began today by making a statment upon the death of Bernie Banton, 65 who died as a result of asbestos poisoning. That is 100% more than previous PM did in 11 years. A state funeral has been announced in recognition of his fight. This one act clearly demonstates the difference between the two Governments. Until last week, Bernie was considered a pest.

James Hardie PLC grew rich over the last 50 years on the health of workers who have now died from or are suffering mesotheliomasos.  In short, asbestos fibres enter your lungs, and kill you. There is no cure.

Bernie took on James Hardie and they closed the Aussie company and ran to the US, where they were welcomed with open arms. Bernie chased them and won a 6 billion compensation fund. The Aussie chair person of JH was sacked, the share price fell yet they continue to exploit workers the world over. They are now a US enterprise.

They knew the blue and white asbestos killed, they didnt care, they assumed they would get away with it and they did until Bernie came along.

So in just one day a little bit of respet FOR the person has been restored.

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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 06:29:51 AM »

How much of that 6 billion was lost before the proper people got it? In the U.S. the legal firms would have been the ones hitting the gold mine on that one.0ur government likes to find things that are bad,and under the  guise of protecting you, they tax it heavily,for your own good, and use the money to create programs dependent on that cash flow. Our government gets so much money from bad things that they wouldn't dare ban the bad things. with tobacco,they have finally found an efficient way to disguise taxing the poor at the cash register. Pretty slick isn't it?
The workers,knowing the job was dangerous have the option to leave that job or not start it at all.
Their must have been some attraction to the job.I know there is risk in everything,but sometimes the people knowingly take the risk and hold others responsible for their own lack of judgement.
It happens here all the time! People are constantly told smoking is bad for them They light up and want to blame the tobacco companies.
A woman driving a car through a drive through window at McDonalds spills hot coffee on her lap after pulling away. Guess who's responsible? thats right,McDonalds to the tune  of millions. Plus they have to now label coffee cups with a warning label that hot coffee is hot!!
You can't always expect someone else to protect you from your self.
Oh ,and here a President can only serve 8 years unless he gets his spouse elected.
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