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Author Topic: AFB spores  (Read 5200 times)
Mici
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« on: November 22, 2007, 08:18:48 AM »

HI!

ummm, i really can't find a picture of AFB spores under a microscope, now...if anyone know of one, i'd be happy if you would post a link, or send me that picture, also, information about magnification of that picture is important.

thank you for your help
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2007, 09:22:21 AM »

http://www.teagasc.ie/oakpark/bru/bru-foulbrood.htm
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Mici
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2007, 12:37:34 PM »

thank you!
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Finsky
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2007, 02:58:32 PM »

HI!

ummm,

Hmm, where you need hose spores?

When spores are calculated they boil first example. Spores stay alive and then stuff will be  cultivated on certain substrate.


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Mici
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2007, 03:30:31 PM »

oh, i don't need them, he-he
someone asked a few questions about micro scoping and that he'd like to try it, and maybe test for AFB, so....I'm trying to help, to find a good picture of AFB spores through microscope.
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Finsky
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2007, 01:02:09 AM »

oh, i don't need them, he-he
someone asked a few questions about micro scoping and that he'd like to try it, and maybe test for AFB, so....I'm trying to help, to find a good picture of AFB spores through microscope.

AFB cannot be found by microscope. It is found wih laboratorium cultivation and by that, it stands 130C temperature.
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Mici
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2007, 08:59:39 AM »

i'm not sure if we understand each other.
around here, anyone willing and in doubt, can get his honey tested for AFB presency.
so...many say AFB is always present so there are no negative results (although, if number of spores per some ammount does not exceed certain value, they declare that sample as negative)

so...what do they do with that honey? i mean...i can't imagine any other way than to look at the honey under a microscope.

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taipantoo
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2007, 09:07:42 AM »

oh, i don't need them, he-he
someone asked a few questions about micro scoping and that he'd like to try it, and maybe test for AFB, so....I'm trying to help, to find a good picture of AFB spores through microscope.

AFB cannot be found by microscope. It is found wih laboratorium cultivation and by that, it stands 130C temperature.

I don't understand your statement.
Why can't you see AFB spores with a microscope?

When collecting mushrooms, the only way to definitely know a safe mushroom from a poison/toxic look-a-like is to look at the spores.
My books say that 400 power is sufficient.

Am I missing something here?
Tai
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Finsky
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2007, 11:13:14 AM »

Spores are cultivated in laboratory and spores are calculated via bacterium clusters -like other bacteria cultivations
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2007, 09:31:51 AM »

Finksy, yes the spores are cultivated, but one has to use a microscope to see them, they are not visible by the naked eye, or am I missing something too.  Have a wonderful and beautiful day.  Cindi
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 04:05:28 PM »

Finksy, yes the spores are cultivated, but one has to use a microscope to see them, they are not visible by the naked eye, or am I missing something too.  Have a wonderful and beautiful day.  Cindi


Do you mean nosema?

AFB goes this way and are visible in petri tray

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2003/ritter_1.pdf

I cannot notice microscope in method.

*******************
APIACTA 41 (2006) PAGE 99-109 99
Monitoring for American Foulbrood Spores from Honey and Bee Samples
in Canada

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2006/pernal_1.pdf

.
*****************

Sample is heated in 90C temperature that other bacterias will die

Samlpe is cultivated petri tray on nutrition where bacterias make colonies.
Sample must be diluted so that each spore makes one indivudual colony on nutrition substrate.


.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2007, 06:15:58 PM »

Finksy, yes the spores are cultivated, but one has to use a microscope to see them, they are not visible by the naked eye, or am I missing something too.  Have a wonderful and beautiful day.  Cindi


Do you mean nosema?

AFB goes this way and are visible in petri tray

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2003/ritter_1.pdf

I cannot notice microscope in method.

*******************
APIACTA 41 (2006) PAGE 99-109 99
Monitoring for American Foulbrood Spores from Honey and Bee Samples
in Canada

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2006/pernal_1.pdf

.
*****************

Sample is heated in 90C temperature that other bacterias will die

Samlpe is cultivated petri tray on nutrition where bacterias make colonies.
Sample must be diluted so that each spore makes one indivudual colony on nutrition substrate.


.


wonder what they mean on page 126 when they say-(determined by a culture counting device)
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Cindi
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2007, 10:28:52 PM »

Finsky, I am standing corrected.  The paper indicates that the paeninbacillus larvae larvae colonies are visible in the petri dish as white and have a concave form and rough surface.  I think I misunderstood something.

So AFB colonies are visible, but is a microscope required to see the spores?  I didn't read in that paper anything about that part. 

There is another test called the Holtz milk test that can be performed as well to test for AFB.  Can't recall an awful lot about this specific test, but it is a viable one for a quick ident on AFB.  Beautiful day, great life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
rdy-b
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2007, 11:17:11 PM »

 cool Smiley http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/205_disdetect.htm  I think most pepole use a microscope   to aid in  Diagnosis

AFB is caused by Paenibacillus larvae , a spore-forming bacterium.
A microscope slide can be prepared by dissolving a small part of an AFB scale. Stir the scale with a toothpick in a droplet of water placed on a slide and apply a cover slip.
Under 400X magnification, the AFB spores are readily visible. AFB spores are characterized by being very slightly oblong, uniform in size and shape. The spores “jiggle” in a characteristic Brownian movement.
P. larvae is competitive and does not tolerate growth of other bacteria in the parasitized bee larva. As a result, most microscopic slides will show a predominance of P. larvae spores. This is not always the case with poor samples or those left in the collection bag for too long. In such case, secondary invaders such as moulds, will appear.
Control and  Wink RDY-B
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Finsky
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2007, 11:44:20 PM »

cool Smiley http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/205_disdetect.htm  I think most people use a microscope   to aid in  Diagnosis



Very strange idea in that "fact sheet".

* you identify first AFB with naked eye from scales, etc.
* then you make a spore sample from scale and indentify it? Makes no sense
* better forget that identification.

If you really want to see it with microscope, the good tool is really expensive.

.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2007, 11:58:35 PM »

cheap insurance with all the scare of nosemea crena  cheesy                                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180181057884&ssPageName=MERC     cheesy RDY-B
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taipantoo
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 10:49:47 AM »

Finksy, yes the spores are cultivated, but one has to use a microscope to see them, they are not visible by the naked eye, or am I missing something too.  Have a wonderful and beautiful day.  Cindi


Do you mean nosema?

AFB goes this way and are visible in petri tray

http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2003/ritter_1.pdf

This cultivation in a petri dish is the cultivation of pathogens that are found on the spores, not the cultivation of the spores.
We are talking about two entirely different things here.


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rdy-b
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2007, 08:57:15 PM »

taipantoo- AFB goes this way grin                                                                       http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/205_disdetect.htm                                                                                                                        being able to check for nosemia is a big plus and goes this way                                          http://www.wildwoodlabs.com/viewer.php?article_id=84    cool  RDY-B
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 10:20:39 AM »

He wants to look at it under a microscope. What is wrong with that?
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taipantoo
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 01:07:50 PM »

It seemed to me that the discussion was leaning towards the cultivation of the spores.
Spores do not make new spores.
The cultivation of bacterium on the spores can lead to identification of spores because you can see a bacteria colony with the naked eye when you can't see the spores, hence, no microscope needed.

I was not aware that the bacteria was a spore forming bacteria, so, technically speaking, I can understand the term 'cultivation of spores' even though it is the 'cultivation of bacteria' that are producing the spores.

I apologize if I have caused any confusion and thanks for clearing this up for me.
I should have done more reading before posting.
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