Starter Strips and converting to "natural"

[Michael Bush]

>NC = Natural Cell

That would make sense.  I just haven't seen it abreviated by anyone before.  But then there is no "Natural Cell" foundation.  There is only large cell and small cell.  The bees build natural comb, but there is no natural foundation.

[steveouk]

yeah sorry still trying to come to terms different people also seem to call different things differently. Gets a bit confusing.

also gets confusing when you type in Natural cell in google and it comes up with different links. From what i have read people feel that 4.9-5.1 mm is "Natural Cell" size.

[Cindi]

Steve, you are new to our forum, I don't think that you have been officially welcomed.  Well, here it is, one of the official welcomes, hee, hee 

Nice to have you come to visit us here, great people, lots of wonderful information, you will learn and learn, lots of seasoned beekeepers and new learners, safe, happy, wonderful, place.  Anyways welcome, ask any question, no matter how insignificant you may feel it may be to people, it is not so.  Every question is great and deserves a great answer, and to that, you will get many different answers.  Enjoy our forum.  Have a great and wonderful day.  Cindi

[steveouk]

Thanks Cindi.

Yes i am learning lots and the more i learn the more i realize i know nothing.

[Michael Bush]

>From what i have read people feel that 4.9-5.1 mm is "Natural Cell" size.

The term "natural cell" is usually reserved for natural drawn comb without foundation.  The term "small cell" is usually reserved for 4.9mm.

Natural cell varies from 4.4mm to 5.2mm or so.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesterms.htm

[steveouk]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I was watching the video from the ( Cant post link as site wont allow me) Hass website and the speaker was saying that they found more mites in Small Cell.

Has anyone else backed this up yet. or is mite tolerance down to breeding rather than cell size
 

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

I was watching the video from the ( Cant post link as site wont allow me) Hass website and the speaker was saying that they found more mites in Small Cell.

HAS 2007 - Small / Large cell comparison

Here's my take on their finding that small cell has:

• More mites - statistically significant: NO
• More bees - statistically significant: YES

This indicates, to me, that mite problems are lower in small-cell hive because the RATIO of mites-to-bees is lower and more tolerable to the bees.

Still, I would like to see this study extended AND replicated.

[Kirk-o]

Hey Steveouk
check out biologicalbeekeeping.com go to the library and read about small cell and the Lusby's you will be glad you did
kirko

[steveouk]

hi thanks but your links does not work, i read about them on beesource but they also do allot of culling o0f hives in their breed management.

I'm used to selective breeding from breeding pedigree dogs in the past. All that seems to do is introduce more problems into the gene stock. However re introducing feral Queens back into the gene pool that seem to be resistant to mites does seem interesting....

 

[misfyredOhio]

(from second year beekeeper) If I start a new hive this year on small cell, is it ok to start it on the 4.9 mm cells immediately? I have been reading about transitioning down but I'm assuming that's for existing hives? Also, do you know if anyone sells frames with the small cell foundation already installed? Is it hard to install foundation on empty frames?

[Michael Bush]

>If I start a new hive this year on small cell, is it ok to start it on the 4.9 mm cells immediately?

Yes.

> I have been reading about transitioning down but I'm assuming that's for existing hives?

It may take a couple of "regressions" but if you start with a package you've already done one.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#HowToRegress

> Also, do you know if anyone sells frames with the small cell foundation already installed?

Mann Lake's PF120s (medium depth) and PF100s (deep) are one piece plastic frames that are 4.95mm.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#foundationtoday

> Is it hard to install foundation on empty frames?

Not hard.  But it is a skill to learn.  Wiring is helpful with wax foundation.  You can buy it wired, but those are vertical wires and it's more expensive.

http://www.beesource.com/eob/wire_embedder/

I'm fond of just starter strips or comb guides and natural comb.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

[Jerrymac]

Then there is the honey super cell

http://www.honeysupercell.com/sblog/

[Kirk-o]

I thought I read that honey super cell dosen't sell small lots.Only large lots like a hundred maybe more is this true
kirko

[Robo]

I thought I read that honey super cell dosen't sell small lots.Only large lots like a hundred maybe more is this true
kirko

Permacomb stopped small quantity orders.  You can buy HSC in quantities of 20.