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Author Topic: Oxalic acid in human body  (Read 4519 times)
Finsky
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« on: November 14, 2007, 08:47:18 AM »

http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/vet/mrls/089103en.pdf 
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* In mammals Oxalic acid is end product of some amino acids.

* 30-70% of body's oxalic acid cames from endogenous processes. The rest comes via food.

* Human body secretes every day  20-30 mg oxalic acid via urine. The rest comes via feces.

* Natural OA level in human blood system is 0.6-4.0 mg/kg.

Here is OA content in usual food stuffs in 100 g food.
http://www.guinealynx.com/diet_oxalic.html . Look column on right.

************************

Carrot has  quite high 5 g/kg = 5000 mg/kg

Normal OA content in honey is 1- 800mg/kg depending on nectar source. One teaspoon of honey  is about 10 g.

At it's worst teaspoon of honey has OA : 800 mg/1000 g ----> 8 mg OA per 10 g honey.

When you eat carrot 100 g, you get OA 500 mg and from one teaspoon of honey under 8 mg in all cases. The difference is at least 100 fold.



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Mici
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 04:06:21 PM »

the biggest risk are older women.
acid binds calcium, making women even more exposed to osteoporouses (spelling?!:D), although it can be just as bad for men.

not that i'm oposing you finsky, but my bigger concerne is, inhaling the stuff, or some other type of accident.

i checked for OA, and wow!! parsley, 17g/kg shocked
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 05:13:42 PM »

It nis one thing to get it naturally through differnt foods.But it is Differnt to pour that crap in a hive.It is un-natural Mother Nature didn't pour it in the hive.I think treatments make resistant mites and weak bees .
That is all
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 05:27:53 PM »

Mother nature never put powdered sugar in a hive either!
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Mici
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 05:31:26 PM »

Mother nature never put powdered sugar in a hive either!

nor did it paint logs, put frames/bars for bees to build comb on them, and most certainly did not steal honey from bees.
and the list could probably go on and on.


oh and finsky, thanks for the info!
i KNOW i read somewhere that OA is  a bi*** because it doesn't leave our "system", i guess that was a real amateur statement, and now that i think of it...i think it said 2g to be the LD.

your info is much appreciated finsky.
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 06:23:51 PM »

Mici,
My point exactly,nature not putting it there is not a valid argument for not using oxalic. Not treating mites could open the bees  to something more sinister ,virus wise.
We acn treat for mites,they may someday transmit to bees something we can't treat for.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 06:51:22 PM »

nor did it paint logs, put frames/bars for bees to build comb on them, and most certainly did not steal honey from bees.
and the list could probably go on and on.


If man didn't do all of that then there would be no beekeeping and no need for this "what is natural" argument. (Nature did steal honey..... Bears for one)

But now that man has placed bees into boxes for the purpose of harvesting honey, and has changed things a lot from the natural way bees do things, then man has caused a lot of the problems that the bees have. If we stop giving the mites stuff to grow immune to, and allow the bees to naturally adjust to the mites and other diseases, things would be a lot better and easier for all. Personally I don't understand all the fear mongering about bee diseases. Some people here talk like all bees (feral, untreated) are walking, crawling, flying, breeding plaques. The healthiest bees I've seen are the ferals.

More on this wonderful naturally occurring acid;
http://apps.uwhealth.org/health/adam/hie/1/002479.htm
http://pennhealth.com/ency/article/002479.htm
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/OX/oxalic_acid_dihydrate.html
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 07:20:16 PM »

Quote
But now that man has placed bees into boxes for the purpose of harvesting honey

it's not like this is a new thing.  man has been keeping bees for 1000's of years. 

Quote
, and has changed things a lot from the natural way bees do things, then man has caused a lot of the problems that the bees have. If we stop giving the mites stuff to grow immune to, and allow the bees to naturally adjust to the mites and other diseases, things would be a lot better and easier for all.

this might be a fact.  it would also apply to cattle, sheep, grain, and people.  if we went back to survival of the fittest, we'd probably have a nice, healthy, gene pool.  of course, some of us wouldn't be here right now.

if you want to go back to letting nature make our choices, rip off some tree bark and have a seat.  otherwise we need to find the most effective and reasonable way to manage the things we have.  that would include bees.
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 07:31:49 PM »

it's not like this is a new thing.  man has been keeping bees for 1000's of years. 


And really started changing things (cell size) in the last 100+ years

this might be a fact.  it would also apply to cattle, sheep, grain, and people.  if we went back to survival of the fittest, we'd probably have a nice, healthy, gene pool.  of course, some of us wouldn't be here right now.

That is correct. In fact I said that somewhere a week or so ago.... I have read an article some where that because of corralling cattle on feed lots and doing the things they do there to the cows that they are not healthy for us to eat and are causing a lot of the human health problems we have today. Free range cattle on the other hand is very healthy for us.

There has been in the news lately articles about super bugs killing people. These bugs came about because of the over use of antibiotics on people. But it will never end as long as the majority believe science equals better living.

 
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 07:37:53 PM »

Chemical treatments make Resistant Mites and Weaker Bees. It contaminates the wax and the hive and the Honey.Just put on your Label the Honey in this container comes from  Bees  that  have been Treated for Mites.This honey came from a hive that is contaminated.Enjoy
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 07:44:45 PM »



There has been in the news lately articles about super bugs killing people. These bugs came about because of the over use of antibiotics on people. But it will never end as long as the majority believe science equals better living.

 

Read The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan for a really indepth discussion of this very topic.  Fascinating book, I couldn't put it down. 
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 07:48:01 PM »

A Lot of the bees problems have been Mans Solutions
kirko
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 07:49:42 PM »

Chemical treatments make Resistant Mites and Weaker Bees. It contaminates the wax and the hive and the Honey.Just put on your Label the Honey in this container comes from  Bees  that  have been Treated for Mites.This honey came from a hive that is contaminated.Enjoy
kirko

Can you please provide some scientific studies that back up these accusations as it relates to oxalic acid.  Or should we just take you at your word?

I believe we have had this discussion before, but obviously you either don't read the studies done about oxalic acid or you don't care to be educated about the real facts and just want to keep stirring the pot with your uneducated banter.

I think we all get the fact that you don't treat your bees with anything and we are happy for you.  Some of us aren't as lucky and need to treat.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 08:07:13 PM »

Quote
There has been in the news lately articles about super bugs killing people. These bugs came about because of the over use of antibiotics on people. But it will never end as long as the majority believe science equals better living.


on the other hand, fewer people die of things like pneumonia, have limbs cut off because a simple cut becomes gangrenous, or end up with damaged hearts from strep throat.  i think what we are after is balance.  science is not the answer to everything, but neither is living in a mud hut with a dung fire to cook over.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Finsky
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 10:51:05 PM »

the biggest risk are older women.


If you read the information, there is no risk from honey's oxalic acid. Even if you look it with magnifying glass.

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 What is difference in your natural beekeeping, if you know things or you don't.  You just keep your system and are afraid same things as before. So what ever we research and study, nature knows best. - I have seen awful results from this style of living. I want to keep myself as far as possible from humans- It is waste of time to try to tell them anything. They have their truth about Mother Nature. If they are happy in they life, I do not think that I would help them in their disaster: No chemicals, no artificial nutrition, no that or that.





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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 07:58:40 AM »

I think the biggest side effect of excessive OA (from rhubarb, spinach,etc) is kidney stones.  If you have those you are supposed to stay away from food high in oxalates.  But that is only in a minority of the population.

And most honey doesn't have that levels unless you are very careless.

And no, you don't want to pour crap in a hive.  Even if it is sterilized it still smells bad.  That goes on the garden. tongue  A little OA carefully trickled in the hive won't hurt, though.
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 03:02:19 PM »

finsky
my biggest concern about the OA is, inexperienced user, that's all, that's why i pointed certain stuff.
also, i was miss led for a long time, about effects of OA and how it works.

kirk-o
nature did not put honeybees on America
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Kirk-o
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 04:33:36 PM »

Nature put the bees on Earth.Most of Natures problems are Mans Solutions
kirko
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 05:03:35 PM »

Quote
Most of Natures problems are Mans Solutions

simply not true.  animals in nature are diseased critters that carry diseased critters on them.  they kill and infect each other on a regular basis.  volcanoes go up.  earthquakes happen.  hurricanes come.  i'd say that most of mans problems are created by nature!  other than war, which is indeed a problem of man, nature is the greatest slaughtering machine  it is only our ability to manipulate, or insulate ourselves from, nature that allows us to survive and thrive.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 05:13:33 PM »

Hey kathyp super bee do you treat your bees with chemicals?
kirko
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