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Author Topic: Foundation pros and cons  (Read 15487 times)
Finsky
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2007, 01:15:58 PM »

 :-DTo brians anrwer l give 0 points heh heh 0h boys  :l send this with my mobile from my stone cave A 
our sloqan here is -. Empty you get without asking
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Finsky
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2007, 04:17:46 AM »

To Finsky the bottom line is the amount of harvestable honey, ......... In China, and many 3rd world countries, a person with 10 hives is often considered a full time beekeeper as he makes most of his living from the bees.


Yes but in Finland we need over  500 hives to be professional beekeeper. Look map.
Are you saying that I need badly every honey kilo from my hives?

Finnish companies make fastest paper engines in the world and best mobile phones in the world. This is expencive country and 10 hives i nothing in our life.  Cold climate, long distances and need of energy makes this expencive.

Quote

Finsky: Here in the USA we have a saying: "Don't knock it until you've tried it."


Sad to hear that. We have not such limitations. We need not to be Miss Unisversums and still we may give opinion on ladies!

We have many people and in lake district of Finland we have special "tribe" of Finnish people Savo folks. Whey have quick tonque.

We have saying:" When Savo man opens his mouth, responsibilyty moves to listener."
An exmaple: We wisited  in local Savo street department and I asked how many workers you have in deparmtment.
Answer: "We have some suspects one person but we are not sure yet".

Quote
When I read Finsky's post I always keep his perpective in mind as to the answer he gives.  He's been known to call question some things I've proved to myself over and over because it doesn't fix his concepts.


Come down to Globe Brian!  I have university a researsher education in biogical sciences with top graduate. I think that you are not able to valaute my knowledge or sayings. I have noticed that you have troubles to understand written researshes. That is why you try your self. He he.

It is better to rebember. I have borned one mile from Savo border.  You have got Brian!




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Cindi
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2007, 09:10:30 AM »

Finsky, you speaking of Savo caught my interest.  Googled what this word means, some trivia, I like trivia, from the Wikipedia encyclopedia:

The Savo dialect of Finnish is the largest dialect of the Finnish language. It is an Eastern dialect, developed from the original Karelian dialect of Finnish settlers, and is spoken in the region of Savo and around the area in Kainuu, in Ostrobothnia, in middle Finland, in northern Finnish Karelia and also by Ingrian Finnish people. It is rather different from standard (Western) Finnish for several reasons.

    * It has re-developed palatalized consonants from consonant + i, which is denoted by digraphs with a 'j', e.g. <kotj> /kotʲ/, <moottorj> /moottorʲ/ (standard Finnish <koti>, <moottori>).
    * Some long vowels and diphthongs have shifted with respect to the standard language; thus, where the standard language has a diphthong, Savo may have a long vowel, and vice versa.


Have a wonderful and beautiful day, greatest of health.  Cindi
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2007, 10:20:22 PM »

Finsky,

I've been around the world: Europe, The Middle East, The Far East, and the South Pacific.  I've learned a smattering of language in every country I spent more than a few weeks in: Spanish, Turkish, Japanese, Thai, Tugolog, & Chinook Jargon has been passed down for 4 generations.  I once meant 2 exchange students who came into the restuarantI was running, one from Turkey, the other from Japan.  I spoke to them both in their own languages and spent the next hour violating the rules of the exchange program by telling them both what certain words from their native language were in the other person's language.  They both insisted on having their picture taken with me as they hadn't expected to find such a cultured gentleman in the USA.

I have found that a person does not need a college degree to be a genius (i.e. Bill Gates).  That just because a person has a college degree doesn't mean he's educated or enlightened.  I've meant a number of narrow minded, research doctorate, educated idiots that couldn't see beyond the end of their noses.

You're belittling makes you seem like the latter.  Yes, you know a lot about cold weather beekeeping, but you seem bent on ridiculing things that I and others, like Michael Bush, have proven to ourselves through repetition time and time again.  A true educator never stops learning, nor does he pish-posh ideas he hasn't debunked through experiment himself.

A few sayings I had passed down from my Grand & Greatgrandparents:  "A narrow mind as no room for new information," and, "A man who claims to know everything, doesn'r recognize his own ignorance."

>>Are you saying that I need badly every honey kilo from my hives?
Exactly, from your postings on this forum that is precisely the impression I've developed. 
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Finsky
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« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2007, 10:30:38 PM »

Finsky,


Brian, you are right! - But you have taken too big job: you try to teach me. Am I right?
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Finsky
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2007, 10:33:52 PM »



>>Are you saying that I need badly every honey kilo from my hives?
Exactly, from your postings on this forum that is precisely the impression I've developed. 


Brian, you are great person! But problem is yours, not mine.

.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2007, 11:34:19 PM »

>>Are you saying that I need badly every honey kilo from my hives?
Exactly, from your postings on this forum that is precisely the impression I've developed. 
Brian, you are great person! But problem is yours, not mine.

Sorry, but I see it as the other way around.  The only things I'm intolerent of is lactose and apples--both food allergies.  Everything else I'll let bygones be bygones, even if I disagree.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Finsky
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2007, 12:06:51 AM »


Sorry, but I see it

OK, I was worried, but you see however.  grin
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Hopeful
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2007, 08:33:29 AM »

 I hold no degree whatsoever, and have come to the conclusion that while degrees are good to have, they are nothing more than an indication that you have learned someone else's opinion.

With that said, can we get back to the issue?


 I like the bees and think they are fascinating creations of the Lord, equipped with far more intelligence and order than most people, including myself, realize. I am saddened whenever I have hurt one or when I have seen them hurt each other (sounds silly , but true). But I make no apologies for wanting "every kilo" I can get from my hives (leaving the bees enough for themselves, too). If there is a way to increase the yield in my hives, with firm integrity, I am all for it. If there is a way to save money and time in an honest and forthright way, then please share.

The point is, I will be needing to make decisions regarding foundation, frames, hives, etc., before next spring and will be adding at least ten more hives then, maybe up to twenty, that will be located about 60 miles from my home.
I need some education on these matters, and thus am asking people who have done this for years. As I look at my own foundations, I have decided by personal choice that I do not like the look, feel or smell of old black comb on rotting frames. The bees do not seem to like it either and I have seen only uncapped "last resort" honey or nectar in these frames. These frames are going into the burn pile.

Now, I have heard that duragilt and other plastic foundation, even wax coated, are not so great, but they are very easy and convenient. At the same time I hear that with wax founations I have to clean and boil and everything, then take them apart and clean further and then attach new foundation, with crosswiring, etc. I am not sure I have that kind of time or motivation. I teach school, farm 10 acres, raise kids and teach sabbath school on the weekends. However, if the plastic-coated is really that bad, and the bees will not use it, then I have to make a hard choice here and late nights might be view.
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kathyp
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2007, 01:42:28 PM »

first figure out what kind of hive product you want.  extracted honey, comb honey, wax, etc.  for whatever your final product will be, you may use different foundation management options.

i like comb honey.  for me, several supers of foundationless are good.  i think the comb honey is better if the bees draw the entire thing.  if you want to use an extractor, you will need either plastic or wired foundation.  with the wired wax, you do not need to do all that work.  you just buy the foundation and pop it in the frame.  i use pins to stabilize the sides but the bees end up attaching most of it anyway.  i do not wire to the frame.  to much work!

if you are going to use crush and strain, which is the cheapest and easiest if you only have a few hives, you may buy unwired foundation or let them draw their own.

for all things KISS is my motto  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2007, 01:53:04 PM »

Thank you, fellow Oregonian ( I lived there most of life before moving to OK). That is kind of what I was after. I get so many opinions and some of them sound like two hives would be a full time job! I was not aware that you could install wax foundation without tearing the wedge board out, removing the nails, and renailing it into place. I think there are different kinds of foundations and frames, groove board and wedge board tops and two or one piece ottom board. Which is better and easier to use?
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Paraplegic Racehorse
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2007, 02:01:06 PM »

Here's my experience with foundationless combs: The bees build the comb without a problem or any guidance. However, build the comb crooked unless you have something to guide them. This year, I will continue to use foundationless frames, BUT each box will have at least one frame with some "straight" comb for the bees to guide from. If I cannot achieve that goal, some starter strips will be used. Said starter strips will not hang into the comb area by much more than five or six millimeters because I don't necessarily need the bees to build comb in the embossed cell sizes; I am content to let them build whatever size they think they need at whatever time they build the comb. Let's face it, the bees have been keeping themselves a lot longer than we have been keeping them. Their own wisdom can guide my decisions so long as my own goals are met. Here's hoping for 100-150kg/colony of whole-comb honey (incl. wax weight) this year!
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kathyp
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2007, 02:21:28 PM »

you do have to pop the wedge strip out, but that is easy.  a couple of useful tools....the wedge goes back in easily with a hand staple gun.  also, if you are going to use wood frames and build your own boxes, tops, etc. a good pneumatic nailer/stapler is a must. both tools are inexpensive and save much time!  of course, i am assuming you have a compressor......

where did you live in Oregon?  i have a Boring address, but i am actually about 10 ft out of Sandy.  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2007, 02:33:34 PM »

My shop and honey house are not set up yet (even though the basic 30X50 building is built), so I do not have those tools you mentioned just now.

I was born in Seattle but lived most of my life in the west suburbs of Portland (Beaverton, Hillsboro, Aloha, Tigard, etc.) as well as Grants Pass. Before moving here I lived in Salem for 1 year. Loving Oklahoma's sunshine, cheap land and down to earth country folk who wave at you when you drive by even though they do not know you from Adam. I could never own the house and land that I do had I stayed there. Lived my whole life in the NW and never got used to all that rain and grey days. Never liked Portland's pretentiousness. But Oregon is still a beautiful place (Thanks to all that rain!), and the mountains, especially outside of Bend, are awesome. No mountains to speak of in OKlahoma; a few small ones, but would be considered foothills compared to the Cascades. A part of me will always be an Oregonian.

(P.S. -Go Ducks!)
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kathyp
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2007, 03:06:39 PM »

Quote
(P.S. -Go Ducks Beavers!)
   evil

there are a lot of expenses when you start up.  it's worth checking back here and asking about stuff before you buy it.  also, i have gotten some great deals buying out people who are out of the business.  i got tons of boxes and frames and an extractor from one guy, and foundation, boxes, frames, and a hot knife from a lady who's beekeeper husband had died.  both deals were found on craigs list.  i also got many calls for hive removal from posting on same.  some turned out not to be  honey bees, and some were in structures that i was not prepared to tackle.

since you have time, you can put the word out and see what you can pick up.  my bulk deals have set me up for years, and at a fraction of the cost of buying new!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2007, 05:30:50 PM »

Thanks for the advice, Kathy. Actually I am also for the Beavs and usually more so than for the Ducks. I said "Go Ducks!" because they have a chance to do something no Oregon team has ever done, win the national championship (if they don't choke). They are currently #2 in the BCS standings. Personally, I went to Boise State, but having been in Oregon most of my life I root for the Beavers and Ducks over the Broncos.

Go Beavs and Ducks! (and don't forget the PSU Vikings too!)

Here's a joke you may like if you are a Beaver.

Q- How do you get a UO grad started in small business?

A- Give him a big business and wait five years. Cheesy
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2007, 07:25:32 PM »

>you do have to pop the wedge strip out, but that is easy.

Actually you don't.  Just put the foundation in and run some wax in the groove.  I never break them out.  I also don't purposefully buy them with the wedge, but I get them from time to time one way or the other.

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Michael Bush
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Hopeful
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2007, 10:10:45 PM »

Michael , do you mean to melt some in a pan or something and pour it on the newly installed foundation?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2007, 10:32:55 PM »

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=231
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Michael Bush
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tillie
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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2007, 10:40:37 PM »

Dadant's wax tube fastener doesn't come with directions.  If you'd like to see how to use one, there's a video on my blog (made after I took one apart trying to figure out how in the world to get the wax in it.!)

Linda T in Atlanta
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