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Author Topic: favorite method for powdered sugar treatments  (Read 12355 times)
Finsky
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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2007, 10:37:07 PM »

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As was said before ,powdered sugar isn't approved for that either,nor is mineral oil fogging or oxalic vapors!

true, but both PS and mineral oil are approved for ingestion. OA is not.  if i sell my honey i will not get busted for having sold out of a powdered sugar dusted hive.  OA?  that's another story.

as for aproval...yes, that would be good.  you'd think they'd be hot on that.

There are at least 20 approved good methods in varroa control. Why you have shoosed the most laborous?
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2007, 10:46:52 PM »

If oxalic is applied when the bees are in winter cluster,there is no residual to get ingested by eating the honey from these hives.Otherwise the US would not be able to import Canadian honey to sell in the supermarkets.
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 07:47:51 AM »


There are at least 20 approved good methods in varroa control. Why you have shoosed the most laborous?
Perhaps because it's the least toxic?  Maybe because she wants to?  Why are you belaboring the point?  If someone wants to do something that's been shown to work why is it such a problem for you? 
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2007, 08:01:58 AM »

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As was said before ,powdered sugar isn't approved for that either,nor is mineral oil fogging or oxalic vapors!


true, but both PS and mineral oil are approved for ingestion. OA is not.  if i sell my honey i will not get busted for having sold out of a powdered sugar dusted hive.  OA?  that's another story.

as for aproval...yes, that would be good.  you'd think they'd be hot on that.


Natural honey has oxalic acid in it.  Research has shown that treating with oxalic acid does not adversely affect the amount of oxalic acid in honey.
http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/slovenia/en/nanetti.pdf

Marion Ellis is working on a 2 year study with oxalic acid
http://www.epa.gov/pesp/regional_grants/2005/R7-2005.htm
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Finsky
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2007, 06:49:24 AM »

  If someone wants to do something that's been shown to work why is it such a problem for you? 

Everyone here seems to be adult. Every one  makes just what he wants. But why he gather support their makings with "disinformation".  And why they doom others doings?  - Nonchemical beekeeping. I think that many have passed his chemistry lessons in shool. 
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Finsky
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2007, 06:53:24 AM »



Marion Ellis is working on a 2 year study with oxalic acid
http://www.epa.gov/pesp/regional_grants/2005/R7-2005.htm


In Europa researches have worked 10 years with the issue and they have revield out questions. And that stuff seems to be extremely good in beekeeping.

.
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2007, 08:43:33 AM »



Marion Ellis is working on a 2 year study with oxalic acid
http://www.epa.gov/pesp/regional_grants/2005/R7-2005.htm


In Europa researches have worked 10 years with the issue and they have revield out questions. And that stuff seems to be extremely good in beekeeping.

.

Yes, but the USA is not going to approve it for use based upon European research.  My response was to the question of it becoming approved in the US, and not how effect it is.  I think those that bleach their frames know its effectiveness.
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kathyp
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2007, 02:30:08 PM »

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Everyone here seems to be adult. Every one  makes just what he wants. But why he gather support their makings with "disinformation".  And why they doom others doings?  - Nonchemical beekeeping. I think that many have passed his chemistry lessons in shool. 


finsky, you know i'm not one to jump on the "organic" band wagon.  most of the things that people are doing are either unproven, or proven to be ineffective.  however, the powdered sugar, as a mid-season way of knocking down mite numbers makes sense.  for those of us who have been using it, and in the few limited studies i have seen, it seems to work to keep mite numbers down.  anything that stimulates grooming, by default reduces mite numbers.

even i have a longer season than you do, but chemical treatment in the spring would not be practical.  i have to wait until fall if i want maximum honey production.  if i do that, i may have such a high mite count as to put my hives at risk.  by using the powdered sugar early and often, i can keep mite numbers down and not lose time for honey collection to chemical mite treatment.
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« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2007, 07:01:08 AM »

however, the powdered sugar, as a mid-season way of knocking down mite numbers makes sense.  for those of us who have been using it, and in the few limited studies i have seen, it seems to work to keep mite numbers down.  anything that stimulates grooming, by default reduces mite numbers.

I have not looked for any studies on powdered sugar as it is too labor intensive to be viable to me.  But I'm wondering have you seen any research that shows the cornstarch, wheat flour, or calcium phosphate added to prevent caking does not cause respiratory or other harm to the bees over the long run?  Especially when dowsing then every 2 weeks.
Thanks
 
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« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2007, 07:36:41 AM »

I think Finskies objective is kill the mites when they are not hidden in sealed brood.That is what makes oxalic more effective.Sugar shakes only knock mites off of emerged bees while the population continues to grow under the capped brood.
Kinda like killing dandelions with a lawn mower,you knock the top off but it returns over and over again.
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2007, 11:08:19 PM »

that's it buzbee.  just knocking them back until the kill  smiley.  thing is, you can't go for the kill and the honey at the same time.

robo, i do not find the PS to be very labor intensive.  just takes a few seconds per hive.  as for the other thing, i'd not worry about it i guess.  bees don't live very long anyway, so if they breath some stuff in i can't see that it's to big a deal.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2007, 11:26:52 PM »

that's it buzbee.  just knocking them back until the kill  smiley.  thing is, you can't go for the kill and the honey at the same time.

robo, i do not find the PS to be very labor intensive.  just takes a few seconds per hive.  as for the other thing, i'd not worry about it i guess.  bees don't live very long anyway, so if they breath some stuff in i can't see that it's to big a deal.

What's labor intensive about applying powdered sugar?  I put on the shim with door screen tacked to one side, shake in the sugar, run a bee brush over it and go to the next hive.  Besides, I'm not interested in killing the mites; I want to give the bees a chance to become resistant by aiding them with limiting the mite population to some degree while the resistance is developed, then I won't have to worry about the mites.  IMHO, killing the mites with whatever chemical of choice is more stress for the bees that is detrimental in both the short and long term.  Allowing them to develop a resistance might be detrimental in the short term but is probably the best solution in the long run.
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« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2007, 11:36:05 PM »


What's labor intensive about applying powdered sugar?  I put on the shim with door screen tacked to one side, shake in the sugar, run a bee brush over it and go to the next hive.  Besides, I'm not interested in killing the mites; I want to give the bees a chance to become resistant by aiding them with limiting the mite population to some degree while the resistance is developed, then I won't have to worry about the mites.  IMHO, killing the mites with whatever chemical of choice is more stress for the bees that is detrimental in both the short and long term.  Allowing them to develop a resistance might be detrimental in the short term but is probably the best solution in the long run.

Brian,

Do you just dust the top super??  I have been dusting all the supers and this has been very, very hard on me having to lift those heavy boxes. Is it enough to just dust the top super??

Annette
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2007, 11:39:07 PM »

Annette, oh, oh.  I think that you have been doing too much work, honestly.  I think that dumping the icing sugar on the top of even the second super is just fine.  That is what I did and I know that it did help to knock of quite a few mites.  I really don't think that you had to take the supers apart, oh dear........I now worry that you have gone too deep into the supers unnecessarily.  Wait for responses.  But I honestly don't think you needed to take apart the boxes.  The powdered sugar goes EVERYWHERE!!!!!  Have a wonderful and beautiful day.  Cindi
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2007, 07:59:00 AM »

as for the other thing, i'd not worry about it i guess.  bees don't live very long anyway, so if they breath some stuff in i can't see that it's to big a deal.

I guess that's an OK approach as long as you aren't the queen Undecided    It seems there was a lot of people having issues with queen supercedure this past summer.  I'm not try to insinuate that powdered sugar had anything to do with it,  but until there is actual scientific research on the subject,  it is a possibility.  It wouldn't be the first time that something that was thought to be harmless wasn't huh

I want to give the bees a chance to become resistant by aiding them with limiting the mite population to some degree while the resistance is developed, then I won't have to worry about the mites.  IMHO, killing the mites with whatever chemical of choice is more stress for the bees that is detrimental in both the short and long term.  Allowing them to develop a resistance might be detrimental in the short term but is probably the best solution in the long run.

I'm not sure I follow this.   How does limiting the mite population make them resistant?  Any colony will survive and co-exist with a limited number of mites. Or are you developing resistance in some other manner?  I assume you would get the same aiding whether you are knocking down the mite count with powdered sugar once a month or knocking the count down with oxalic acid once a year?
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2007, 12:17:40 PM »

To be honest, I actually felt that I caused the supercedure in one of my hives due to annoying them so much.

Annette
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2007, 04:54:10 PM »

robo, for what it's worth, i had my queen problems before i did any powdered sugar treatments.  i had no problems after.  we'll see how we come through winter.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2007, 01:28:49 PM »

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I'm not sure I follow this.   How does limiting the mite population make them resistant?  Any colony will survive and co-exist with a limited number of mites. Or are you developing resistance in some other manner?  I assume you would get the same aiding whether you are knocking down the mite count with powdered sugar once a month or knocking the count down with oxalic acid once a year?

The theory I opperate under is that an overload of mites can kill the hive early on, but my limiting the population of the mites through the use of sugar shakes the bees have time to develop hygenic behaviors that will, in effect, make them resistant.  Anamok Effendi?
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2007, 03:05:24 PM »

The theory I opperate under is that an overload of mites can kill the hive early on, but my limiting the population of the mites through the use of sugar shakes the bees have time to develop hygenic behaviors that will, in effect, make them resistant.  Anamok Effendi?

I understand the theory, but the question I still have is what are you doing that causes them to develop a hygienic behavior?   I still maintain that if one keeps the mite population under control,  the bees will co-exist with the mites and will not develop any resistant traits. 
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2007, 07:32:02 PM »

my favorite way is to get a old flour sifter and put powered sugar in it and shake it over hot roles or cakes and sometimes cupcakes  grin,  I have never done it on bee's, how they taste  huh  Wink
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