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Author Topic: Organic?  (Read 5217 times)

Offline Hopeful

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Organic?
« on: November 05, 2007, 12:01:31 AM »
A friend of mine has offered to keep some of my bees on his 500 acre organic farm. He is certified organic. Does that mean my honey will be the same, or that it makes it easier to obtain?
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Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2007, 12:16:01 AM »
you will have to maintain your bees to the standards of the certifying agency or at a minimum maintain under NOSB standards - to call your honey organic for marketing purposes    RDY-B                  http://www.beesource.com/pov/organic/nosb.htm

Offline reinbeau

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2007, 07:54:47 AM »
Hopeful, that's a wonderful place to keep your bees, lucky you!  I think of keeping bees organically more than claiming to have organic honey.  Bees travel 2-3 miles, unless all of the land within that radius is organically managed you really can't be sure everything is from an untreated source.  Of course your bees will have access to so much right nearby they may not travel that far often - but they could. 

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2007, 07:55:39 AM »
The USDA, last I heard, had not pinned down the standards for Organic certification for honey.  Some states have their own.  There is a upward limit of output in dollars before you have to be certified anyway, but to say it's organic and be under that limit you still have to be able to prove you follow organic procedures.

If you use no chemicals and have them on a 500 acre organic farm thats pretty good.  But the bees will still forage the 8,000 acres around the hive.

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Offline Hopeful

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2007, 08:12:38 AM »
The gentleman who owns the farm wishes to put them in an area in which he is giving a "sabbath rest". He says he will spread clover in that area for my bees. Will this keep them around the organic area and prevent wandering into the non-organic areas?
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Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2007, 12:06:27 PM »
Nope. The bees will go to what ever plant they want to in their foraging range.
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Offline randydrivesabus

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2007, 01:49:09 PM »
what does he grow on his farm? its nice to have an organic farm for them to forage on but if what he grows is not a high nectar producing crop then you're not going to see much honey yield out of it and theres more of a chance that your bees will go elsewhere.

Offline Hopeful

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 02:59:00 PM »
He grows everything from alfalfa to squash. And all kinds of veggies, fruits and berries.
"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3

Offline randydrivesabus

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 06:53:53 PM »
sounds like a winner to me.

Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2007, 08:35:44 PM »
go to 205.240  section F # 1  bees may forage on none organic land as long as they have organic pastures of there own -these standards are NATIONAL - most certifying agencies have a more strict requirement but the apiculture task force set the requirements for organic honey all you have to do is take the time to read it and things may be easier to understand most people are just not in the know about these things and there is much for them to learn  RDY-B

Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2007, 08:53:41 PM »

(f) The producer of an organic apiculture operation may:

(1) Allow bees from their operation to forage on non-organically managed land when
adequate forage from organically managed land and/or land that is managed in
accordance with ß 205.207, as defined by the operationís organic apiculture plan, has
been provided; and 
http://www.beesource.com/pov/organic/nosb.htm
RDY-B

Offline Hopeful

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 09:05:14 PM »
That's great news! Is there a link to download the entire document?
"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 09:08:39 PM »
Certainly if there is plenty of forage in a half mile radius then they probably won't wander far from that.
Michael Bush
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Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 09:40:32 PM »
http://www.beesource.com/pov/organic/nosb.htm    8-)  thought i posted this before -let me know if you need the link for organic standards - explains labeling  requirements  registration verses certification ect.-ect, -ect- RDY-B

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 10:44:34 PM »
if nothing else, resort to the truth--you can factually claim that the honey is from bees located on an organically certified farm.
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Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2007, 01:09:13 AM »
(1) Allow bees from their operation to forage on non-organically managed land when
adequate forage from organically managed land and/or land that is managed in
accordance with ß 205.207, as defined by the operationís organic apiculture plan, has
been provided;

How much organically managed land is "adequate" for one strong hive? And then there is this:

Quote
(g) The producer of an organic apiculture operation must not:

        (1) Maintain colonies in an area where land to which prohibited materials, as listed in ß 205.105, are applied, or where another source of contamination is located less than 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) from the apiary, as described in the operation's organic apiculture plan.

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2007, 08:22:44 AM »
Four miles?  Wow.  That's a radius of 32,157 acres.  Sure.  No problem.  ;)  And now you see why you never see certified organic honey...
Michael Bush
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Offline Hopeful

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2007, 08:41:14 AM »
>>>>>>-let me know if you need the link for organic standards <<<<<

Yes, that would be great.
"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3

Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2007, 08:40:19 PM »
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/indexNet.htm                                                                                                    http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NOP/standards/FullText.pdf    8-) RDY-B

Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2007, 12:05:38 AM »
(1) Allow bees from their operation to forage on non-organically managed land when
adequate forage from organically managed land and/or land that is managed in
accordance with ß 205.207, as defined by the operations organic apiculture plan, has
been provided;

How much organically managed land is "adequate" for one strong hive? And then there is this:

Quote
(g) The producer of an organic apiculture operation must not:

        (1) Maintain colonies in an area where land to which prohibited materials, as listed in ß 205.105, are applied, or where another source of contamination is located less than 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) from the apiary, as described in the operation's organic apiculture plan.


I have shown you how to do it -I am doing it on three acres and have organic reg. with a number that says it is organic WOW is right  RDY-B

Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2007, 12:54:00 AM »
Four miles?  Wow.  That's a radius of 32,157 acres.  Sure.  No problem.  ;)  And now you see why you never see certified organic honey...
      google it  to many to list -next best thing to sliced bread :lol:  RDY-B

Offline Hopeful

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2007, 08:31:08 AM »
I just read some of the document (500 pages!? :shock:). According to page 30, I can sell up to $5000 in organic honey, labeled as such,  without certification. I expect that 10 hives are not going to bring $5000 per year, so the point is moot. I can label and sell as organic the honey producesd on my friend's 500 acre farm with no problem. At least this is how I read it.
"And this is life eternal...." "John 17:3

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2007, 07:38:48 PM »
>I just read some of the document (500 pages!? shocked). According to page 30, I can sell up to $5000 in organic honey, labeled as such,  without certification.

I believe that is correct.  You will, however, have to provide a plan as to why you think it's organic if they ask for it.  But that's just what your methods are etc.  Assuming you use no chemicals you can probably present a good enough argument.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2007, 08:54:16 PM »
Under the $5000 exemption you will have to get registered not certified -under the $5000 exemption the organic plan and much of the paper work is omitted -make sure your time tables are in store for your requirements under the apiculture task force -and follow there requirements  for maintaining those bees -talk to your AG. dept. and you will get lots of help filling out the forms            happy keeping   8-) RDY-B

Offline rdy-b

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Re: Organic?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2007, 08:58:36 PM »
one more piont of interest -I only sell my comb honey under my organic label it helps keep it under $5000 for organic sales ;) RDY-B

 

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