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Author Topic: Diagnosis please  (Read 9450 times)
2-Wheeler
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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2008, 02:11:02 PM »

Cindi,

I hope that is true. I will post some fresh pictures this weekend.
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-David Broberg   CWOP#: CW5670 / CoCoRaHS #CO-BO-218
Blog: http://beesandblooms.blogspot.com/
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Cindi
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« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2008, 08:39:25 AM »

David, good, good luck.  Let's see the pictures when you can get them into the forum.  Some of my colonies broke cluster yesterday for awhile and there was a lot of bee poop on the pretty white hives, hee, hee.  Have an awesome day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
2-Wheeler
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2008, 12:19:09 PM »

Okay, Here are the shots I took when they were out on January 5th 2008:


Full Size Image Link


Full Size Image Link

And these pictures were taken this morning:

The troubled hive. Full Size Image


The healthy hive nearby. Full size image

The second hive seems immaculate by comparison.  Does this look like dysentery?  If so, how soon can I treat?

« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 08:03:35 PM by 2-Wheeler » Logged

-David Broberg   CWOP#: CW5670 / CoCoRaHS #CO-BO-218
Blog: http://beesandblooms.blogspot.com/
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2008, 12:51:58 AM »

You've got nosema.
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2-Wheeler
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« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2008, 05:29:18 PM »

Thanks Brian. 

I don't have the microscope to confirm, but let's assume it is nosema. Is there anything I can do for them, without resorting to chemicals?

We had planned to requeen this hive. Is that still a good idea?
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-David Broberg   CWOP#: CW5670 / CoCoRaHS #CO-BO-218
Blog: http://beesandblooms.blogspot.com/
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2008, 09:45:12 PM »

>Is there anything I can do for them, without resorting to chemicals?

You can wipe things down with vinegar to kill the spores.  If you really want to treat with something more natural, thymol is used in Europe for Nosema (as fumidil is illegal there because it suspected of causing birth defects).

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema
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Michael Bush
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Romahawk
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« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2008, 12:02:29 PM »


You can wipe things down with vinegar to kill the spores.  If you really want to treat with something more natural, thymol is used in Europe for Nosema (as fumidil is illegal there because it suspected of causing birth defects).

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema


How long will the spores live if untreated?? I read it somewhere but darned if I can find it.
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2-Wheeler
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« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2008, 02:23:13 PM »

You can wipe things down with vinegar to kill the spores.  If you really want to treat with something more natural, thymol is used in Europe for Nosema (as fumidil is illegal there because it suspected of causing birth defects).

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema

Thanks Michael. Your site is always very helpful and it looks like you have done some redesign to make it even better. Nice work.

I haven't been able to find anything on this vinegar wipe-down process. What exactly do you wipe (seems like the spores would be everywhere)? How much vinegar at what concentration?  Is this similar to the "Cyclone" vinegar treatment?  When should it be done?

We used thymol in the form of ApiGuard on this hive for 4 weeks last fall. I thought it needed to be fairly warm to use that again. Should I reapply this spring? Are there other forms besides the slow-release gel?

So far they are still alive, but I can tell they are stressed. Thanks to everyone on this site for all the helpful suggestions.
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-David Broberg   CWOP#: CW5670 / CoCoRaHS #CO-BO-218
Blog: http://beesandblooms.blogspot.com/
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2008, 03:25:44 PM »

One thing I can answer is your Yellow Jacket problem. I use the same feeder. I now put a piece of screen on top of feeder(slightly larger than feeder) and then put on telescoping lid. It prevents the samller YJ from getting into syrup from lid area. I also had this dysentry issue last winter after along cold spell. Mine made it. I've reached conclusion everyone has mites and probably nosema too. When hives get weak, the parasites take over, other hives will survive. Your hive was weakned this fall for unknown reasons and now its struggling. Maybe it couldn't compete w/ hive next dor w/ dearth and all.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2008, 06:35:43 PM »

>How long will the spores live if untreated?? I read it somewhere but darned if I can find it

I don't know.  Seems like it was quite a while.  But not nearly as long as AFB.

>I haven't been able to find anything on this vinegar wipe-down process. What exactly do you wipe (seems like the spores would be everywhere)? How much vinegar at what concentration?

You can wipe up any stains you see with straight vinegar.

As far as the rest you'll need to fumigate if you want to get the rest and that takes about 80% acetic acid which you'll have to get from a photo supply place.  I'm not sure how to do it as I never have.  But I bet you can find it on the internet.  Smiley

>We used thymol in the form of ApiGuard on this hive for 4 weeks last fall. I thought it needed to be fairly warm to use that again. Should I reapply this spring? Are there other forms besides the slow-release gel?

For nosema it would need to be in syrup.  Again, I bet the recipe is on the internet somewhere.  Try a search on "nosema" and "thymol"

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Michael Bush
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2-Wheeler
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« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2008, 09:13:26 PM »

Alas, the battle has ended, the disease won, the bees lost.  Cry

We had low 70s today, so BeeGood went out to assess the condition of the hives. There were a few bees out taking cleansing flights, but inside was a sad story. Most of the frames in the upper deep had clusters of dead bees. Many died with their heads deep into the comb, but even more died just as they were standing, stuck permanently in a somewhat natural pose. This picture shows there was some remaining honey in the comb right where they died, but it didn't seem to help. There were many small groups of dead bees scattered throughout the hive. There didn't seem to be any single cluster.


View 1200x860 image

With it pretty clear they had nosema, I'm beginning to wonder if this was a case of the more severe Nosema ceranae strain.
Randy Oliver wrote:
Quote
Amazingly, in a few short years N. ceranae appears to have supplanted N. apis throughout much of North America and the world!  In many areas, it is now difficult to find the previously common N. apis!... One European researcher feels that we have been so distracted by varroa, that we have simply overlooked the poor buildup, queen failures, poor honey crops, and colony collapse due to N. ceranae.

More from Randy Oliver on Nosema: http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48

The good news was that the nearby hive seems to be doing much better. A quick peek into that hive, she verified that they still had good supplies of honey stores and had a much larger population. She decided not to start feeding after inspecting two nearly full frames, near the center of the upper box. This second (healthy) hive also seems to be amazingly clean compared to the dead hive. The wax and comb appears clean and very light colored, while the dead hive has very dark colored comb.
-David
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-David Broberg   CWOP#: CW5670 / CoCoRaHS #CO-BO-218
Blog: http://beesandblooms.blogspot.com/
My Weather: http://www.leyner.org/
My Flickr Album: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dbroberg/
Cindi
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« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2008, 08:31:26 AM »

David, well, try, try, try again.  It is always sad to lose a colony, but keep that chin up!!!  Have a wonderful and awesome day, love this life we live.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
JP
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« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2008, 08:40:10 AM »

I see beebread but no honey, I think they starved.

....JP
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abejaruco
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« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2008, 11:22:02 PM »

Quote
I see beebread but no honey, I think they starved.
Yes, I think so too.

Life is like mathematics, we are doing derivatives,....functions...integrals...and we forget the 2+2.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2008, 07:37:58 AM »

>The wax and comb appears clean and very light colored, while the dead hive has very dark colored comb.

All old comb is dark colored.  It means there are cocoons in the comb (in other words it means it's been used to rear brood).  It means nothing else.  Dysentary does not prove Nosema.  For proof of Nosema, you'll need a microscope.  ALL bees have dysentary in the spring after confinement.  The real question you need to answer is if it was Nosema.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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