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Author Topic: oxalic acid application  (Read 5646 times)
Cindi
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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2007, 12:02:03 AM »

bberry.  I doubt if there will be any more significant numbers of mites fall. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Finsky
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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2007, 02:39:16 AM »

Could it still be effective for a hobbiest?
Thanks for the reply!

It is old fassion method and it is not recommend any more. Hobbiest or not - and 80% of  beekeepers are hobbiest - there is no reason to use old methods. Varroa is serious problem. It is not style question.


Many use in wrong way methods and they had problems. Even if you try to use in correct way, it may be missfortune.



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Finsky
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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2007, 02:44:00 AM »


Does anyone have some advice for follow up after using this method? If there are still significant # of mites?

Following is not necessary. It helps nothing.

IT TAKES ABOUT 2 WEEKS BEFORE YOU SE FINAL RESULT. HALF OF MITES HAVE DROP AFTEN 7 DAYS.
 
.
Finnish beekeeping specialist Ari Seppälä calculated from Finnish 
varroa trickling research  following lag time :
 
After
cure ---- rate of all falled 
1 week ---- 54 % 
2 week ---- 20 %
3 week -----13 %
4 week ------8 %
5 week ------5 % 
 
A finnish researcher Seppo Korpela has calculated during many years mites' drop
 
 year 2000  altogether 34468 falled mites 
 
1-2 weeks 96% 
3-4. weeks 2,4 % 
   
v. 2004 ... 10730 mites: 
 
1-2 weeks 98 % 
3-4 weeks 2 % 
 
Y  2005....  12270 mites 
 
1-2 weeks 96 % 
3-4 weeks 4 % 

FUMIGATION OF OXALIC ACID GIVES SAME FIGURES
 
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alfred
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2007, 12:47:15 PM »

   Here is how I did the vaporization. I used a shim board with a vent hole, duct tape, a piece of plexiglass, and some metal pipe.



   The pipe is two 3" sections and angle joint and an end cap where the acid crystals go. The hole had to be widened a bit to accomodate the pipe. The plexiglass was some that I had around from an old poster frame that I cut to size by scoring with a knife and then breaking off at the score marks.(careful very sharp stuff)



   I think that the down tube could be shorter, say 2". I used duct tape to tape the plexiglass on and also put a piece in between the pipe and the plexiglass where they came into contact so as to protect the plexiglass from the heat.



   I simply set it on top of the hive. I pluged the entrance and the openning in the back where my mite tray goes and my vent hole so that no vapor could escape. Then I used the torch to heat the pipe.

   I began by heating the pipe above the end cap first so that the vapor wouldn't condense inside the pipe. Then I put the torch directly on the end cap where the crystals are.



   It took longer that I thought it would to see vapor and then longer before it seemed like it had all been vaporised. the vapor sort of came in waves.

   I had a little leakage at the end cap but none anywhere else. I wore a respirator just in case.

   After all of the vapor was done I left the hive plugged up for about 10 min. Then took off my gizmo and removed the rags that I used to block up the hive and put the covers back on and the mite tray back in.



I really liked this method over simply inserting the pipe into the hive as I can see what is happenning. best of all is that over the next few days I had tons of dead mites on the tray and no dead bees!!!


Of course you all realise that my intent was not to kill mites but was to bleach my wood work. I would never use an unaproved method of pest control nor would I use a chemical product in any way other than for it's intended purpose......

Thanks to everyone for their help on this it seems to work really well and is simple and cheap. I probably spent $10-$15 and I have enough acid for a lifetime.

Alfred

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alfred
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2007, 01:03:04 PM »

  I should add that I have done this three times now over the last three weeks. The first time was by simply inserting the pipe into the hive through a vent hole and the last two was by using the device.

  The device got way better results than the pipe alone. Many more dead mites. I think that this is because of a couple of reasons.

  I used more crystals  because I felt more comfortable after the first time that I wasn't going to kill my hive or have some sort of toxic mess to clean up.

  I was able to get the pipe in deeper than before.

  Mostly I was able to see the vapor and see that it was being vaporized and make sure that I had vaporized it all and that it was finished.

  The device allows me to not have to hold the pipe so I was able to heat the entire downside of the pipe so that there was no condensation. When I did it with just the pipe and holding it, I later found a lot of residue in the pipe so obviously less got into the hive.

Alfred
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Finsky
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2007, 01:06:39 PM »


. I would never use an unaproved method of pest control nor would I use a chemical product in any way other than for it's intended purpose......


Oxalic acid is very same if you heat it or give it as water solution. No difference.
OA leaves no residuals in honey or combs. It is very carefully researched by European Union project.


English officers did not approved oxalic acid but beekeepers just took it into use. It is only 20 miles sea gap between Europa and England.

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Cindi
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2007, 09:25:43 AM »

Alfred, very good pictures and excellent accounting of your adventures.  Thanks, you did some good work there.  Have a wonderful and greatest of this day. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2007, 08:23:23 PM »

When is it too late to use this treatment? As I've said, I found a farm where I can put some hives next year, but there are three hobbyist's hives already there, presumably abandoned, since the beeks have not returned to manage them. When I visit the farmer this weekend to scope out potential locations for my hives, I want to either encourage him to contact the beeks to find out if the hives are abandoned, then take them over myself and do a trickle. It's getting into the low 50s here for the highs, lows enough to bring frost. If these hives have not been managed, I can't imagine their condition. I'm more worried about them surviving the winter and collapsing in the spring to be robbed by my hives, and getting screwed by mites hitching a ride back. Treating these hives and losing them over the winter is less of an issue to me than getting screwed in the spring. However, if I can treat them now and in the spring and have them survive, I have some free bees.

I've got blocks of fondant to feed if they need it through the late winter, but I don't even know how these hives are set up at this point, not having even seen them yet. Pest are my concern, more than the boxes themselves.

Thoughts?

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2007, 08:42:54 PM »

>When is it too late to use this treatment?

You can do vapor anytime.  It's probably better on a warm day when the cluster is loose.
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Michael Bush
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Moonshae
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2007, 09:19:43 PM »

I don't have the equipment to vaporize, I was going to trickle syrup.
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Robo
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2007, 09:25:58 PM »

I'm more worried about them surviving the winter and collapsing in the spring to be robbed by my hives, and getting screwed by mites hitching a ride back.
Thoughts?

If they survive the winter, the chances that they collapse in the spring is minimal as collapses usually happen in the Fall.  If they are heavily mite loaded, they will die during the winter.  If they survive the winter without treatment,  they have some type of mite resistance and I'd look to split from them.   

The way I see it your opportunity of getting mite resistant bees is worth more than the slim chances of your bees getting mites from them in the spring.    I'd leave them alone and reevaluate in the spring.  That would give the farmer more time as well.

BTW,  I'm still vaporizing and probably will for a few more weeks.
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2007, 09:43:08 PM »

I don't have the equipment to vaporize, I was going to trickle syrup.

You can buy the parts for a torch type for ~$10 at Lowe's.
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Finsky
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2007, 01:21:24 AM »

I don't have the equipment to vaporize, I was going to trickle syrup.

You can buy the parts for a torch type for ~$10 at Lowe's.

Why? Trickling is the best method when you use it before winter.

I have done yet trickling. Our temp is near freezing point now and it seems that permanent snow is coming.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2007, 07:04:53 AM »

>I was going to trickle syrup.

Pick a warm day when they are flying.
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Michael Bush
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Finsky
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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2007, 07:49:58 AM »

>I was going to trickle syrup.

Pick a warm day when they are flying.


Again what ? HuhHuhHuhHuh?

Trickling needs not warm day. That isit's strong side. It is better to trickle when temp is 0C-+5C.
Bees are in ball and they do not attack on you when you hive roplets on them.

Bees get dirty for sticky syrup and mites will die during next 2-4 weeks.
Why mites die, it is not well know.

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I have just now here snow rain and I will trickle my bees next weekend. Probably they cannot fly any more at all.


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Cindi
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2007, 11:27:13 PM »

Finsky's quote:
Quote
Trickling needs not warm day. That isit's strong side. It is better to trickle when temp is 0C-+5C.

This is correct, it must be done before it is freezing and is not too terribly warm, do it when there is no brood present, trickling will kill brood, vapourizing will not kill brood if it is present.  Have a wonderful and great day, good luck, Moonshae.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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