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Kirk-o
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« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2007, 05:22:36 PM »

All the feral bees in L a and Arizona don't read that stuff by the experts.Your observation is always more valid than any report.I see Feral Bees all over the place.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2007, 08:58:05 PM »

>Practically speaking, the wild honey bees have become extinct in the United States due to infestation of the Varroa mite.

MOST of the bee scientists keep saying that.  A few don't.  Larry Connor says he keeps finding feral bees.  Tom Seeley has been studying the ones in Arnot forest.  Obviously if feral bees could talk, they would say as Samuel Clemens did: "reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated".
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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2007, 10:41:21 PM »

maybe at the time when all these hives were dieing it was true, I believe the ferals are making a comeback, but I think they are half of what they use to be..... it makes since that after the main die off the bee's that showed restraints are spreading plus beekeepers are buying bee's for resistance and all these bee's swarm the feral population will grow...
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« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2007, 10:59:58 PM »

I am not saying that the Varroa didn't have an impact on hives feral and domestic. I just don't think it was as extreme as they are saying. I think saying 99% death of feral hives due to Varroa is just wrong.  I think people throw that number around without sound scientific backing. So right now I want to find a report that says when the Varroa arrived in 1987, That between the years of 1987 and 1993 99% the feral bee hives were destroyed by Varroa.

And that report needs to be specific to Florida. I have read reports on a few other places one says 75% one says 20% but none say 99% and none talk about Florida. Except in some cases where they mention that the Varroa came in through Florida. But I cannot find a report that confirms that either.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2007, 06:45:06 AM »

tell you what understudy, one way would be ask Keith S. Delaplane and see how he or others came up with so many different numbers... go straight to one of the horses mouth's

http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/contact.htm
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« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2007, 06:50:52 AM »

In talking to beekeepers around the country there seem to be pockets where the feral bees did all die.  But there also seem to be pockets where not many died at all.  Since the Varroa are endemic, I'd have to blame other causes as contributing those higher numbers.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2007, 07:16:00 AM »

  Since the Varroa are endemic, I'd have to blame other causes as contributing those higher numbers.


but what other cause's that could effect a such a wide area and happen at the same time mites were killing domestic bee's, I dont believe there was anything else that could have killed ( or made disappear) the bee's like they did but mites and timing is the main reason I think this. just look at the mites track record, every country they were newly found in got hit hard just like the USA did so why think there is another smoking gun thats caused the bee's to disappear, nothing else would make since, now dont get me wrong, I am not blaming it all on Varroa, bee's started vanishing when T-mites got started and I think they were still dieing from them when varroa hit, but when I was talking about mites I was referring to both.
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« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2007, 07:26:23 AM »

I have sent him an email.

You wouldn't happen to have contact information on Dr. Larry Connor. Author of The Varroa Handbook: "Biology and Control"

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2007, 07:33:45 AM »

this is the only one I know of and seen on the web, might be the same  Dr. Larry Connor

http://www.wicwas.com/page4.html
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reinbeau
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« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2007, 07:52:20 AM »

I';m pretty sure ferals died out around here for a period in the early 90's, I remember being in my garden for probably two years in a row at least and never seeing a single honeybee (I'm observant, nature is one of my loves, I watch and keep track of what I see out there).  I remember exactly the first time I saw a honeybee in two years, it was on a purple crocus next to my stoop, and I cried out "a honeybee!" when I saw her.  They've been back around ever since.
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« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2007, 03:17:53 PM »

i read back through this thread.  something to think about.....

all of the great epidemics and pandemics in history, with one exception, have one thing in common.  mobility.  either the mobility of the vector, or mobility of the carrier.  it does not matter whether you are talking about livestock, people, or, most likely, bees.  the one exception is the flu pandemic of the early 20th century.  the great flu appeared simultaneously in several places and on different continents. some of those places were quite remote.  to this day, no one really knows how that happened.

seems that leaves control of disease to three choices.  1.  allow nature to take it's course and live with what is left.  2.  control mobility, which in this day and age is not practical 3.  control disease.

breeding survivor stock of anything is desirable.  does the survivor stock you breed, survive export?  perhaps not.  when exposed to new contaminates, the stock you have raised may not be immune to the contaminate in the new area.

controlling mobility is not an option with bees if you are going to transport them for pollination.  you also could not import or export your "survivor" stock.  even if your own hives never leave your property, the bees travel a large area and may be exposed to bees that have been imported and may be infected with ?.

treating disease has it's own risks.  we have experienced resistance to mite treatments.  antibiotic treatments can lead to resistance in many species.  this is especially true if it is not done according to direction.  not treating disease puts our own and others bees at risk.  if we are going to treat, we all want to use the least dangerous and most effective medications or methods.

this is just the disgorging of thoughts on the choices we all face.  i don't think there are easy, or one size fits all, answers for us.

i remember that my great aunts oldest daughter died of rheumatic fever after having a sore throat for a couple of weeks.  people don't die from strep throat much anymore.  of course, now they die of antibiotic resistant staph infections.....in fewer numbers....a fair trade?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 06:54:24 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2007, 10:57:34 PM »

I';m pretty sure ferals died out around here for a period in the early 90's, I remember being in my garden for probably two years in a row at least and never seeing a single honeybee (I'm observant, nature is one of my loves, I watch and keep track of what I see out there).  I remember exactly the first time I saw a honeybee in two years, it was on a purple crocus next to my stoop, and I cried out "a honeybee!" when I saw her.  They've been back around ever since.

I have to disagree.  Bee's go where the nectar is.  Where I'm living, at the old family homestead, there was a dearth of bees for years.  this with 2 beekeepers less than a mile away.  the main problem as I saw it was that my parents weren't into growing plants that the bees liked over other nectar sources, the only time of the year honey bees were observed was when the orchard was in blume, otherwise, nada.  After they passed away and My wife & I moved in we changed the types of flowers majorly, added more fruit trees and bushes, and added out own bees.  Now we see bees everywhere.  However, if we hadn't changed the flora to that which bees like my bees would be going elsewhere for their nectar instead of getting it closer to home.
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« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2007, 07:26:30 PM »

I';m pretty sure ferals died out around here for a period in the early 90's, I remember being in my garden for probably two years in a row at least and never seeing a single honeybee (I'm observant, nature is one of my loves, I watch and keep track of what I see out there).  I remember exactly the first time I saw a honeybee in two years, it was on a purple crocus next to my stoop, and I cried out "a honeybee!" when I saw her.  They've been back around ever since.

I have to disagree.
Disagree with what?  My observations?
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Bee's go where the nectar is. 
There was never a dearth of nectar here, especially one that lasted two years.
Quote
Where I'm living, at the old family homestead, there was a dearth of bees for years.  this with 2 beekeepers less than a mile away.  the main problem as I saw it was that my parents weren't into growing plants that the bees liked over other nectar sources, the only time of the year honey bees were observed was when the orchard was in blume, otherwise, nada.  After they passed away and My wife & I moved in we changed the types of flowers majorly, added more fruit trees and bushes, and added out own bees.  Now we see bees everywhere.  However, if we hadn't changed the flora to that which bees like my bees would be going elsewhere for their nectar instead of getting it closer to home.
Well, that definitely wasn't the case here, I have been gardening here since 1978 and have always, except for those two years, had bees, yes, honeybees, in the garden, along with all different kinds of flowers for them to enjoy.   There were no beekeepers nearby, the bogs are within range, but they stopped pollinating most of them around here in 1980 or so.  Believe me, there were no bees.
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« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2007, 01:34:42 AM »

Well, if you had the type of flowers that bees prefer, were a credible distance from any apiary, and didn't see any honeybees for several years, you may have been in one of those pockets where the ferals bees died off.

What I was trying to say is that there is much more than not noticing the bees around than just assuming if you don't see them they must be gone.  I think that is the crux of the 99% feral die off theory go started.  I'm sure that in some areas that was the case, In my area it wasn't.  We need to think about it and explain it a little better.  And I admit I was wanting in the explaining portion.
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