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Author Topic: Starter strip comb  (Read 4363 times)
Cindi
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2007, 05:30:43 PM »

Dee Lusby has been collecting measurements from all over the world and mapping them.  She says it runs from largest near the poles and smaller near the equator.  But I agree that the variance in size within the same hive for different purposes is often greater than the average size difference based on latitude.

mb, do you think that the bigger cells makes bigger bees so the bees can generate more heat by flexing their bigger wing muscles while in a cluster? i can see where the bigger bees in colder climates might have a better chance of winter survival. maybe in these colder areas it wouldn't be a good idea to use small cell foundation.

Old Timer.  Now that is certainly an interesting theory, wow.  You have opened an entire new thought process in my own mind, thinking, thinking, wondering.  Can't wait to hear some other opinions/theories!!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley  Have a wonderful day, best of a great life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Michael Bush
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2007, 06:37:11 PM »

>mb, do you think that the bigger cells makes bigger bees so the bees can generate more heat by flexing their bigger wing muscles while in a cluster?

As far as I have read smaller bees have the same size wing muscles which is probably why I see them flying in 40 mph winds when the large cell bees never would.

> i can see where the bigger bees in colder climates might have a better chance of winter survival. maybe in these colder areas it wouldn't be a good idea to use small cell foundation.

I'm in a cold climate.  I think the small cell bees winter better or the same.  Certainly not worse.  But then not having Varroa and tracheal mite problems leads to much better wintering.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2007, 06:46:38 PM »

did dee lusby come up with a hypothesis as to why they would draw larger cells closer to the poles?
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rdy-b
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2007, 10:05:43 PM »

Cindi what do you do with the water and-did you mean .5 or 5 grams (5 grams makes about 100 gallon of syrup ) when mixed in. any way i know what you mean (i think  Smiley  )  RDY-B
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2007, 10:18:54 PM »

Personally I think the bees draw different sizes of comb depending on need and location within the hive.  The worker brood area will/should have the smallest cell size.  Drone comb can very in size = depth & width and result in a large size difference between the adult drones within the same hive.  Storage comb can range from worker brood to cells that look like barrels in relation to the majority of the comb.  I've seen storage comb with twice the surface area of a "normal" drone cell.  This is usually most apparent in burr or bridge comb that is used primarily as storage comb.

When regressing bees to SC using strips or foundationless the first year comb will be erratic in size with the most eratic being drawn 1st and then more uniform comb size coming later--with the exception of the noted 3 sizes of comb.  2nd year comb should be managed so that the bees build their new (smaller cell) comb in the brood area with the older comb moved up or out of the brood area to be used as storage comb.  After the 3rd year you should have about 4 medium boxes of worker brood on small cell and all other comb will then be storage comb.

To answer Cindi's question: I personally think that smaller overall comb in the tropics and larger sized comb towards the poles has to do with servivability--a larger cell makes for more insulation for the ajoining cells.  The colder the climate the more insulation (larger cell) is required.  This may explain Finski's atitude about small cell.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Cindi
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2007, 12:16:05 AM »

RDY-B.  Sorry.  Some confusion here, probably on my part about the use of Fumagilan-B.

The ratio is 2:1 sugar syrup mixture.

In the fall feeding:  I will quote from the instructions given, if there are typos, please pardon Smiley:

"Description:  Fumagilan-B is a water soluable preparation containing the antibiotic Bicyclohexylammonium Fumagillin, equivalent to 21 mg Fumagillin base per gram of powder.

Fumagilin-B has a high specific action against Nosema apis, a microsopic, single-celled parasite which causes Nosema disease in honeybees.  It acts on the multiplying, disease producing parasite in the gut and is not effective against the spores.  To eradicate the continuing supply of parasites, Fumaglin-B must be provided over a period of several weeks.

DIRECTIONS:  Medicated syrup is best prepared at a concentration of 25 mg Fumagillan base per lite of syrup, usually a 2:1 syrup (two parts of sugar to one part of water).  Fumagilin-B may be dissolved in water or syrup at room temperature.  For best results, heat the required amount of water to 35-50 degrees Celsius, then remove the heat source and add the Fumagilan-B and the sugar in that order

The prepare this concentration of medicated syrup, use the following chart:

165 ltr water     330 kg sugar  380 ltre syrup 454 g fumagilan-b
35 lt water   69 kg sugar  80 ltre syrup  96 g fumagilan-b
8.7 lt water 17 kg sugar 20 ltre syrup 24 g fumagilan-b
1.8 lt water  3.8 kg sugar 4 ltre syrup 5 g fumagilan-b  (this is what I use for each of my own colonies)

Good agitation is essential to assure uniform distribution of the medicament

For the protection of wintering colonies, medicated syrup is best fed in the fall, if it is fed once per year.  There may be advantages to feeding medicated syrup in the fall and in the spring.

DOSAGE.  All treatment.  After all honey supers have been removed, feed medicated syrup at the following rate:

7-8 litres for each 2 chamber colony (approx 30,000 bees)
4 litres for each 1 chamber colony (approximately 18,000 bees)
3 litres for each 5 frame colony (approximately 12,000 bees)

Feed additional unmedicated syrup to desired colony weight for wintering.


Whew, that was alot of typing, the instructions are probably written in a 9 font!!!!!

I really hope that I have cleared up a little bit of confusion.  Have this wonderful day in the palm of your hands!!!  Good health. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Michael Bush
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2007, 07:19:12 AM »

>did dee lusby come up with a hypothesis as to why they would draw larger cells closer to the poles?

No.  She just made the observation.  Of course the difference is pretty slight compared to the difference between 5.4mm standard foundation and 4.9mm small cell foundation.  4.9mm is naturally found all the way from North to South to some extent where 5.4mm worker comb is not.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
rdy-b
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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2007, 09:44:51 PM »

so you are using 25 mg per liter 5 grams sounded like a lot- but my first figure of 100-gal would take 9.5 grams     and .5 grams makes 5 gallon dont know much about liters and such ( you are using .5 grams arent you) i went through this when i treated so the recommended amount i came up with is from a supply catalog (i guess thats cheating cheesy )any way your bees well be strong. RDY-B
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Cindi
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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2007, 08:51:21 AM »

so you are using 25 mg per liter 5 grams sounded like a lot- but my first figure of 100-gal would take 9.5 grams     and .5 grams makes 5 gallon dont know much about liters and such ( you are using .5 grams arent you) i went through this when i treated so the recommended amount i came up with is from a supply catalog (i guess thats cheating cheesy )any way your bees well be strong. RDY-B

RDY-B, oh brother, now you have me second guessing what the instructions mean.  I am putting these instructions below my post again, only the amount part.  It says that 25 grams of Fumagilan, base per litre of 2:1 syrup.   But Fumagilan-b is a concentrated form of the antibiotic Fumagilan, so not as much is required.  If you still read some kind of different dosage than what I am reading, continue on with this talk.

The instructions indicated "5 grams" per 4 ltres, not .5 grams.  I don't think I am reading the instructions incorrectly.  Randy, I wonder what form of Fumagilan the supply catalogue was using.  Maybe it is not the same identical product to what I have, maybe the amount of antibiotic used is different.  I don't know.  But I definitely read that 5 grams is to be used, not the .5 grams that you indicate rolleyes Smiley  Instructions can be difficult to follow, I know I do have issues with instructions many times.

4 litre is almost 1 gallon, it is really exactly 3.8 litres to a gallon. 

I have measured 5 grams on my digital scale, it is just over 2 teaspoons.

The following directions are taken directly off the instructions that came with the Fumagilan-B medication.

DIRECTIONS:  Medicated syrup is best prepared at a concentration of 25 mg Fumagilan base per lite of syrup, usually a 2:1 syrup (two parts of sugar to one part of water).  Fumagilin-B may be dissolved in water or syrup at room temperature.  For best results, heat the required amount of water to 35-50 degrees Celsius, then remove the heat source and add the Fumagilan-B and the sugar in that order

The prepare this concentration of medicated syrup, use the following chart:

165 ltr water  +   330 kg sugar =  380 ltre syrup (95 gallons) + 454 g fumagilan-b
35 lt water +  69 kg sugar =  80 ltre syrup (20 gallons) + 96 g fumagilan-b
8.7 lt water + 17 kg sugar = 20 ltre syrup (5 gallons) + 24 g fumagilan-b
1.8 lt water  + 3.8 kg sugar = 4 ltre syrup (1 gallon) + 5 g fumagilan-b  (this is what I use for each of my own colonies)


I hope this has helped to clear up this little discussion we are having.  Have a wonderful day, best of this great life we live.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
rdy-b
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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2007, 07:22:41 PM »

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/catalog/page37.html this is the stuff i used  Smiley  very strong medication  Smiley RDY-B
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Cindi
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« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2007, 11:19:47 AM »

RDY-B, the product I use is identical to MannLake's.  I looked at the bottle, same company, same trade name.  I bought the size that makes 20 gallons, I paid $44.50 for this size, I see that MannLake's is $39.00 or so, so after shipping and handling, a minute exchange on the dollar, it is cheaper for me to get it in Canada.  Yes, it is powerful stuff.  Have a wonderful day, best of this great life we're livin'.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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