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Author Topic: Starter strip comb  (Read 3776 times)
Cindi
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« on: September 29, 2007, 10:37:05 PM »

Finally got a picture of the starter strip comb.  Pierco plastic foundation cut out with a strip left at the top.  The bees didn't get too far on it.  Maybe should have put it between two brood frames, like Michael had said to do.  Hmmm...living, learning, listening, have a wonderful day, beautiful life.  Cindi

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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2007, 10:38:19 PM »

That looks pretty good to me.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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rdy-b
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2007, 12:59:47 AM »

now you can measure the cell size. nobody is posting any info about cell size in the different parts of the country. you have got the natural comb to start with.around here even with the feral rescues and cut outs we dont seam to get smaller than 5.0. I always search for the 4.9 but  think the bees do it a little bit different as to cell size depending on where in the world you are  huh  I was reading something about that in a( beekeepers diary ) By ALLEN DICK ever read that web site? much knowledge to be shared RDY-B
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007, 09:34:29 AM »

I guess that I don't understand the advantages of this method. It seems that the unsupported comb would be much more fragile and therefore mor dificult to work with?

Alfred
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Cindi
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 10:12:00 AM »

Alfred, this was only an experiment with about 6 frames in my 9 colonies.  I wanted to see what natural comb would be like when it is drawn on an empty frame with only a starter strip.  Yes, it is fragile, I almost dropped out a frame of honey that was built in the starter strip, it was almost attached along the sides and bottom and was slipping, but I managed to get the frame vertical and it held in place.  Evidently when the comb gets older it is stronger.

Personally, I am not going to continue to use starter strip, it was an experiment, like I said.  I will use foundation in the frames.  Strong combs, no chance of the comb to ever fall off the frame.  Personal preference.  You will hear of many other forum members that love the natural built comb in the empty frame, but it is not for me.  Have a wonderful day, best of this beautiful life we live.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2007, 11:25:07 AM »

Cindi, good day...what type of frames/foundation do you use??
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Cindi
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2007, 11:38:43 AM »

Sharon, I like the wooden frames with the wax foundation.  That is what I originally began with in my beekeeping, always had beautiful comb drawn.  Last year I decided to try the plastic Pierco frames.  I have had many problems with the bees not liking to work on the plastic, drawing really weird funny comb and so on. I don't like it.  I have so much plastic frames that have not been touched by the bees.

I was going to give all these plastic foundation away, and revert back to wooden, but before I do that I am going to try to put some beeswax on them to see if the bees will work them, which they probably will, but time will be the teller of that tale. 

Any further frames I will need to purchase will be wooden/wax foundation.  Time, tried and true.  Hope that answers your question, Sharon, have a wonderful day, best of our beautiful life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2007, 11:42:55 AM »

alfred,


this was my concern also.  i tried some this year in by brood boxes and honey super.

  the comb they built in the brood boxes filled the frames and was very strong.  i found no difference in handling or incidental damage between the wired foundation, and what they built.  some people express concern about durability over the long term.  it has been recommended to me that foundation be rotated out periodically.  i am not concerned about durability past 2 or 3 years.

unfortunately, i did not get any honey this year.  my purpose in using strips in the honey supers was to produce clean comb honey.  i do not know if the unwired comb would stand up well to mechanical extraction.  someone else could answer that.  it would certainly be great for crush and strain.
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2007, 12:16:55 PM »

>no chance of the comb to ever fall off the frame.

Maybe if you use plastic...
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Michael Bush
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2007, 04:50:14 PM »

>no chance of the comb to ever fall off the frame.

Maybe if you use plastic...

Michael, nope, missed your point and don't know what you are meaning  Smiley  Have a wonderful and great day.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2007, 05:18:14 PM »

now you can measure the cell size. nobody is posting any info about cell size in the different parts of the country. you have got the natural comb to start with.around here even with the feral rescues and cut outs we dont seam to get smaller than 5.0. I always search for the 4.9 but  think the bees do it a little bit different as to cell size depending on where in the world you are  huh  I was reading something about that in a( beekeepers diary ) By ALLEN DICK ever read that web site? much knowledge to be shared RDY-B

you can measure cell size anytime you have a tape measure and are insepting your hives.
imo, cell size is more dependent on the strain of bee and not where you are. if i take an italian, russian, and nwc, and have them all here at my house, they will not draw a certain size of cell just because they are in my yard. they will draw the cell based on how they see fit and for what purpose they want it for, just as they would do on the other side of the world.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2007, 09:55:42 PM »

>Michael, nope, missed your point and don't know what you are meaning 

The point is any wax comb (foundation or not, wired or not) can sag, fall, break or otherwise collapse.  Plastic foundation is about the only insurance that it won't.

Brand new comb is very soft.  Hot brand new comb full of new honey is VERY overstressed.  This is true even with wax foundation.

As far as them finishing the comb, the bees don't finish a comb they start because the flow gave out and they didn't need the comb.  At least not where it was.
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Michael Bush
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rdy-b
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 10:55:23 PM »

OLD TIMER there seams to be a relationship with- where your location is and the cell size- that is the small end of the spectrum for natural cell building( things that work well for bees in some areas do not work well for them in other areas). yes i understand what you are driving at- when you speak of the propensity of different races of bees. but i would like to hear from the list and see if we can do some detective work of our own. there is a lot of natural comb being opened up with the removals we all are so fond of doing. lets see what we can do. cindi what is the cell size of the first round of comb you are showing us? dose it corollate to the map by the way this map is undisputed as being the most accurate and is from impeccable source Wink     
 
     http://www.culturaapicola.com.ar/apuntes/genetica/261_tamano_celdas_panal.pdf  RDY-B
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rdy-b
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2007, 10:57:04 PM »

http://beesource.com/pov/lusby/therm_map.htm    grin
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2007, 11:08:11 PM »

I have tried starter strips last year, dont really see a need for it except for comb honey, I will use wired foundation any chance I can..... I did the SC starter strip last year on a few frames in a couple hives to see what they would draw out, they drew the SC strips out fine but everything below the strips was bigger, ranged from 5.1-5.3 in size on adverage, some cells were huge and different sizes so I didn't mesure, and this was every frame I tried. yup this was my first try but it was just to see, I dont use small cell, fatbeeman gave a few sheets he made to cut for the strips.......these were all put in brood chamber, most all frmes was atached and strong but some were from top to bottom and side to side but they didnt' attach to the bottom or sides and it would want to fall out when filled with brood, just had to watch how you held it......
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rdy-b
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2007, 11:42:06 PM »

I know what you mean TWT it is a tough road to hoe for a lot of us- thats why i think the comb from the cutouts would be a better sound board for various areas- just a crazy notion.hope we can see if there is any merit to it. RDY-B
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2007, 06:52:39 AM »

Dee Lusby has been collecting measurements from all over the world and mapping them.  She says it runs from largest near the poles and smaller near the equator.  But I agree that the variance in size within the same hive for different purposes is often greater than the average size difference based on latitude.
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Michael Bush
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Cindi
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2007, 08:58:55 AM »

RDY-B.   OK,OK, OK.  You have finally caught my interest.  I actually had no interest in measuring cell size and that was that.  But...just for the fun of it, I'll give it a whirl.  I have several different natural combs hanging around that I have collected.  I am not sure how to measure, but I will figure that one out pretty quick, not sure if I can get around to it today.

We have had days of rain, and I mean big rain and wind, horrible weather.  I was going out to feed the bees yesterday, there was a bit of a break in the rain and I got all ready, 9 gallons of sugar syrup in my wheelbarrow, headed out to the bees, and the skies opened up and rained like there was no tomorrow.  Oh brother, suddenly, I really didn't feel like going out there anymore  rolleyes

I was told by both my bee instructors in response to an e-mail that I sent them that we should this year be treating our colonies with Fumagilan-B for nosema.  Last year here we did not.  But with all the fears of the CCD and possibility of it coming to Canada, they are advising to treat, which I am ready to do.  5 grams mixed in 4 litres of water.

I woke up early this morning (up early regardless, but was up really early), I think it is a change in the barometric pressure (I do love the clearing skies).  I went outside to observe the night air and it was crisp, the humidity was not there, you know, the rain causes the air to be very damp feeling  Smiley.  Nope, clear and crip, no stars, but I am sure the sun will be shinin' later on, yeah!!!!!  Have a wonderful day, best of our beautiful life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Cindi
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2007, 09:05:38 AM »

Read, learn and listen, ooops!!!!  I just read some of the site that you linked to RDY-B and I see how to measure the cells, it looks pretty simple and now I feel that it would be an adventurous thing to do.  Checking it out later on today.  Best of this beautiful day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2007, 02:30:18 PM »

Dee Lusby has been collecting measurements from all over the world and mapping them.  She says it runs from largest near the poles and smaller near the equator.  But I agree that the variance in size within the same hive for different purposes is often greater than the average size difference based on latitude.

mb, do you think that the bigger cells makes bigger bees so the bees can generate more heat by flexing their bigger wing muscles while in a cluster? i can see where the bigger bees in colder climates might have a better chance of winter survival. maybe in these colder areas it wouldn't be a good idea to use small cell foundation.
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