To exclude queen or not in super??

[monkeyfish]

Greetings,

This is my first year and all appears to be going well. <2 deeps w/brood/honey/pollen - 1 super>
I put the super on after I saw the 2nd deep mostly full and now a month later they have not drawn any comb in it yet.
 
My questions:

Is this normal for first year activity?
Should I remove the queen exluder even at the risk of brood laying up there?

Thanks for your suggestions!

~Scott

[BigRog]

Great AV
Lurch get that man a drink!

[Robo]

Loose the excluder.  The bees will not go thru an excluder unless it is drawn comb, or there is brood there.  

Unless your making comb honey,  I would advise not using a queen excluder (also known as a honey excluder).  

Since this is your first year, I would advise NOT trying comb honey until you get some experience under your belt.

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of bees hanging out among the <combless> frames, just not building anything I guess. I did take out the excluder and we'll see what happens.

I'm guessing that the low rainfall this summer is also a factor? I should probably be feeding them to compensate for this?

Regards,
~Scott

[Kris^]

I had that problem, three weeks with no comb built in there.  So I pulled the excluder out and, after another week of doing nothing, they ended up filling the box with comb and nectar within a week.  I had a queen supercedure take place there, or they may have started sooner.  It also happened that we got some much-needed rain during that week, so that could have contributed to an increased nectar flow.  Or it could be that my new queen needed additional laying space, so they went to work.  Anyhow, someone here directed me to the following page, which explained the concept of "baiting" a super before putting on the excluder, which gave me ideas on how to get them to actually do something in that box.  (Of course, I had to get them to draw the comb before baiting it.)  Maybe you'll find it helpful, too.

http://www.beekeeper.org/april2002.html

-- Kris

[golfpsycho]

Important to remember, they won't draw the foundation unless there is a flow on.  The bees will create the space they need, as they need it, but if there is nothing to store, they just "hang out" as you mentioned.  The excluder is also an inhibiting factor for them.  You can create the "flow" by feeding, but this time of year, it may be stored with the honey they have made, and adulterate it.  Another thing to watch out for, is to suddenly find they have filled the brood nest with honey and completely ignored the foundation filled super.  It pays to make an in depth inspection when things aren't moving along and we're learning "bee stuff".  When bees are making honey, they spread nectar all over the place to cure, and can quickly tie up the brood nest with storage.

Recently, I looked in a main brood chamber and found it full of nectar.  (there was a 3rd deep on them)  The queen had been laying in the middle box. I was in a hurry, and closed the hive back up, planning on finding the queen and reversing the boxes on the weekend.  When I went back in, they had moved most of the nectar out of the lower box into the 3rd deep and capped most of it.  The queen was in the bottom box laying.   Quite a suprise, but they did the manipulation I was planning on their own.  I love it when a plan comes together.

[Finman]

Important to remember, they won't draw the foundation unless there is a flow on.  The bees will create the space they need, as they need it, but if there is nothing to store, they just "hang out" as you mentioned.  The excluder is also an inhibiting factor for them. .

I do not use excluder, or I use it in special purpose.

One reason why they do not build foundation it that they may think swarming. When they wait swarming, they do not build new combs.

If you have 2 box bees, it is not wise to restrict brooding. Good queen needs 1,5 box for brood. When it is too tight they are going to swarm.

I is summer now in Finland, 20-24C warm at day. Still I use 15 W terrarium heating in my 1 box nucs. They lay eggs 3 times more than in natural way.  It takes 2 weeks and Langstroth box is full of larvas.

[monkeyfish]

Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions. The excluder is off but it sounds like there are no guarantees when it comes to bees!

~SFP