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Author Topic: Vaporising Propolis  (Read 7768 times)
Dane Bramage
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« on: September 09, 2007, 12:01:11 AM »

If you've done it, confess here (& pls share your experience(s)).  If not, you know you wanna.  afro

I just experienced the volatile properties of the propolis I've harvested (red & blonde) and I have to say... wow!  Aromatic utopia!

Cheers,
Dane
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Erik T
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2007, 01:02:38 AM »

Alright Dane, you made me go out back and try it.  Wink  Interesting to say the least.  Wonder if it'll help with my congestion left over from a cold.

How did you go about it?
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annette
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2007, 04:35:49 PM »

Yeah,

I want to know also how you inhaled those vapors??


Annettte
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Finsky
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2007, 05:14:55 PM »

I just experienced the volatile properties of the propolis

I have bad experiences. So when I go to sauna and I have propolis I my fingers, vapour makes tickle my eys  badly. And I do not rub my eys, it comes via air. Temp in my sauna is about 70C - but not on skin so much!
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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2007, 05:35:07 PM »

Erik & Annette ~> grin  I went about it like this ~>
the direct approach (w/ceramic core heat gun & bong water tool).  But, there are products which diffuse it into the air for sort of a 'whole-room' aromatherapy effect.

Quote
This vaporizer has been designed to use the heat in order to obtain the volatile fraction of propolis.

When the vaporizer is switched on, propolis undergoes a rapid heating for about one minute so that the temperature rises first to 62° (melting point of the cerous fraction) and then to 85° (maximum temperature which proved to be the optimal temperature for the emission of the components without causing their alteration). Thanks to a sophisticated electronic regulator the temperature of the heated mass can vary between the two values.

With the heating the volume of propolis in the cylindrical container increases and nearly doubles when it reaches the limiting temperature of 85°. This expansion promotes convection currents, the continuous change of the surface mass and, as a consequence, the emission of the volatile substances.


They're doing some cool and innovative things in Turino.

Finksy ~> thats the right temp for vaporisation of propolis.  It melts and vaporizes right off your hands and into the air.   I would think it would be excellent in a sauna (like many essential oils can be) but - burning eyes - I wouldn't like that either!  All the studies on propolis seem to speak of it as an absolute composition with the same characteristics.   I would think much of the characteristics would be dependent on the plant source.  Can bees collect propolis from poison oak, for example?  shocked  My propolis is red and blonde/light tan.  I'm going to have to vaporise some more later to better qualify the aroma.

<Dane makes note to search for analyses of varying propolis>

Erik ~> I would think it would be very helpful as remedy to your congestion.  The study cited that I've come across so far (did not get a direct link to study yet) said it killed ~ 76% of airborne bacteria as a diffuser.  A direct inhalation, it would seem, would be quite effective.

Gosh I love beekeeping!

Cheers,
Dane
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2007, 09:55:03 PM »

>Temp in my sauna is about 70ºC - but not on skin so much!

And I thought a Finnish Sauna was 110ºC (230 F)

http://www.scandinavica.com/culture/sports/sauna.htm

I've only managed to get a sauna to 100ºC and it doesn't feel as hot as an Inipi (Sweat Lodge) so I'm guessing 110ºC is about the limit and probably what a really hot sweat is.

I have not tried propolis on the rocks in a sweat nor heard of it being done.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2007, 10:05:16 PM »

Smoking Propolis?!
The crack of the new generation.
The first one is free. >Smiley

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2007, 12:31:43 PM »

Smoking Propolis?!
The crack of the new generation.
The first one is free. >Smiley

Cute... but please, don't cloud the thread/concept with erroneous comparisons to smoking and crack.   angry
"Smoking propolis" ~> Research vaporising vs. smoking.  I've attached a little reference material quoted below.
Propolis, a 100% natural substance that bees collect from botanical sources and Crack, a crudely freebased form of cocaine...  rolleyes

The reason I've taken issue with your comment (joke?) is because, although you might dismiss the idea of vaporising propolis based on inaccurate analogies, I'm simply seeking truth through scientific method & empirical evidence.  You may unnecessarily scare folks away from researching a potentially healthful/beneficial practise/remedy with such statements (even if made in jest).

Here's what one site is saying: "Revolutionary and unique, the Propolis Diffusers vaporize and release the volatile fraction of bioflavanoids found in Propolis. Researchers and medical professionals have used the proven benefits of Propolis for many years. But now with a patented, time-released method of releasing these valuable flavanoids, you can absorb them as you breathe. 

Experiments carried out in schools by the A.S.L. 5 of Collegno (Turin) have shown, after three days of utilization of the Propolis vaporizer within a confined environment, resulted in an average reduction of the microbial load by 71,8%!!!

Effective against bacteria, viruses, acari, fungi and molds, the Propolis Diffusers are exceptional when treating conditions of the:

        * Respiratory system - pharingitis, laryngitis, sinusitis, otitis, asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, influenza, colds
        * Oral Hygiene - gingivitis, stomatitis, abscesses
        * Dermatological system - mycosis, eczema, herpes zoster, psoriasis, burns
        * Digestive system - colitis, ulcers of stomach, restores flora
        * Genital & urinary organs - infections of kidney, bladder, prostate, vaginitis, uterine inflammation

It's aromatherapy with therapeutic results!
"

More on vaporization/volitization:
Quote
Vaporization is what occurs when the active medicinal constituents found in plants are heated to their boiling points, or vaporization temperature range, and release vapor containing the active constituents in a gaseous state. This vapor can be inhaled to deliver the actives via the tracheo-bronchial tree much like smoking or using a nebulizer, but without the harmful irritants and carcinogens found in smoke that results from combustion (as opposed to controlled heating) of the plant material and without the alcohol and preserved water that serves as a base for the nebulizer solutions. This is possible because the vaporization temperature range of the active constituents is significantly below their flash point and pyrrolytic temperature and that of the surrounding plant material, thus with an effective vaporization technique no combustion, or burning of the active constituents and the plant material they reside within takes place. Recently, this process that has conventionally been termed vaporization has been re-named volatilization for scientific purposes to be more technically correct in some applications due to the fact that it is the volatile plant oils that are being released in a vapor like form in extractions from volatile oil containing plants. The term volatilization is more scientifically correct in that it refers to the process of converting a volatile oil into a gaseous state while vaporization technically refers to the conversion of something that is normally solid or liquid into a gaseous state (volatile oils having different properties than either solids or liquids). We at VripTech Int. generally use the term vaporization because it is more widely known and understood even though technically speaking volatilization is the more correct term if you’re working with volatile oil containing plants. Whatever you want to call it…it's a whole lot better than smoking, teas, tinctures, or capsules as a delivery medium as it’s cleaner than smoking and much faster acting than any of the oral or metabolic delivery methods. The practice of warming plants and botanicals to the point necessary to induce vaporization or volatilization of the actives for extraction and inhalation purposes is called Hot Gas Extraction Aromatherapy or Phyto-Inhalation. This exciting new and rapidly evolving delivery method promises to play an important role in the future of alternative medicine and is even proving to have applications that have piqued the interest of mainstream Pharmaceutical companies. A future where you inhale virtually all of your medicines isn’t that far off…

Cheers,
Dane
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Mici
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 04:00:51 PM »

ok..so i have obtained some...propolis, now, i also have a sisha, so...do i understand it correctly? instead of tobaco i put propolis, heat it with a hair drier or some other heat source and then inhale it? basicly the principle is the same it just doesnt have to be lit?
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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2007, 01:22:24 AM »

ok..so i have obtained some...propolis, now, i also have a sisha, so...do i understand it correctly? instead of tobaco i put propolis, heat it with a hair drier or some other heat source and then inhale it? basicly the principle is the same it just doesnt have to be lit?


Greetings Mici - Smiley

hehehe - that's one way to do it, though the heat source would need be a "heat-gun" (a bit more sophisticated than a hair drier).  Preferably a heat gun with controllable temperature and airflow such as these from Steinel.  It also requires some sort of adapter to seal the heat-gun nozzle and direct the hot air into the tobac/propolis chamber.   It's all seeming terribly complex as I write it but there are various vaporizer models commercially available specifically designed for the task (some better than others).

I find myself using much simpler & whole-house/room methods most always.   Perhaps try one (or more) of these first prior to retrofitting your shisha/hooka to see if it appeals to you.
  • on sauna rocks -> try to place it on the coolest rocks else it will vaporize, then burn too quickly.  Having some water handy to make a little steaming propolis pool works very well
  • wood-stove -> it's getting cold here already.   Placing some propolis in ceramic (tinfoil could be used as well) and placing this on the wood-stove is some divine aromatherapy (I love the smell of wood-burning fires)
  • essential oil burners/heated-diffuser -> speaking of aromatherapy, these work very well also.  I have some that I no longer used for essential oils (I prefer non-heated diffusion via nebulizers).  Both electric and candle heated types are also an effective method for diffusing propolis



For me, it's aromatherapy with purpose (air purifying) & very enjoyable but, then again - I'm rather unorthodox (aka: weird!).  I hope you like it too!

Cheers,
Dane
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CBEE
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2007, 08:30:56 AM »

So you just put a big glop of propolis into one of those thingys my wife likes to make the house smell good ? Do you put any water in with it at all ?
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Mici
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2007, 10:34:31 AM »

yeah i had one of these vapori thingis, but my dad broke it so...after 4 years, still haven't had the time to buy a new one.  grin
well i tried it yesterday, i used a lava-lamp as a heat source and i cut a plastic flask to serve as the "catcher-inhaler"...but i think most of the stuff burnt, so it'ss not the best way to do it, lol.
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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2007, 11:59:30 AM »

So you just put a big glop of propolis into one of those thingys my wife likes to make the house smell good ? Do you put any water in with it at all ?

Yes - just some propolis directly in the essential oil diffuser - no water.  Propolis (& wax) are not water-soluble so the water just floats on top sealing in the vapor, at least in my diffusers.  If yours was hot enough to heat the water to boiling temp it may work.  I've found I even get better results when I pour off the melted wax (my propolis always has some wax mixed in).  The propolis sticks in place.  Oh, and I haven't attempted to clean my diffuser of the propolis either.  Could be nigh impossible.

yeah i had one of these vapori thingis, but my dad broke it so...after 4 years, still haven't had the time to buy a new one.  grin
well i tried it yesterday, i used a lava-lamp as a heat source and i cut a plastic flask to serve as the "catcher-inhaler"...but i think most of the stuff burnt, so it'ss not the best way to do it, lol.

A light bulb as heat source?  The plastic flask wasn't heated was it?  (burning + plastic sounds scary!).   What type of vaporizer is it?  One of those old-style heat-tray types?  Were you able to get any good aroma out before it burnt?

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CBEE
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2007, 12:43:07 PM »

Thanks for the info.. I'll try this when I get a chance
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Mici
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2007, 12:58:02 PM »

no plastic was burned during the procedure, hehehe

ummm, it's simply a regular lightbulb and a glass flask filled with water and colored wax sitting on top of it
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50147556/Lava_Lamp.jpg
i just removed the water+wax part so, the plastic bottle was only around it, to catch the vapours so i could inhale them.
i think the main problem is, i can't control the temperature.
hmmm, you say you simply put propolis in your diffusor, doesn't it simply burn and give off of aroma?

also..what is technicly speaking burned propolis, does it even burn if not under direct heat source, or does it simply vapourise?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2007, 05:51:27 PM »

I wonder how propolis vaporization would work in a CPAP machine? 
I suffer from Sleep Apnea as well as Asthma, Chronic Sinusitis, and Narcolepsy so if propolis vapor can help my asthma and siusitis I would be tickled pink.  I will have to give this some thought.  As yet I don't have enough propolis to harvest any as the bees in my apiary seem to go lite with it.  The Italians make as much as my other 3 hives put together yet they are not nearly as propolis prone as Italian bees I've had in the past.
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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2007, 01:42:27 PM »

Thanks for the info.. I'll try this when I get a chance


You're welcome CBEE.  Please post back with your results/impressions.  The red propolis I get here really smells great but I haven't sampled any other types.

i think the main problem is, i can't control the temperature.
hmmm, you say you simply put propolis in your diffusor, doesn't it simply burn and give off of aroma?
also..what is technicly speaking burned propolis, does it even burn if not under direct heat source, or does it simply vapourise?


Temperature control is helpful but, unless it's either too cool to get any vapor or so hot it's burning very quickly, you should be able to get a bit of an idea.  Then you can obtain the tools you need/want as appropriate.  I use a lot of herbal remedies = phytotherapy and already had all the equip necessary to efficiently heat the herbs to release the active constituents without  combustion.  I'm unsure if I would go to that expense solely for propolis, but it is nice having options.  Smiley

Diffusers vs direct inhalation: Both have their purpose/application.  Doing a direct inhalation is more concentrate and may (no studies known, of which I'm aware) be an effective remedy for respiratory ailments.  Diffusing propolis is a more dilute approach, has been shown to neutralize ~ 72%-76% of airborne bacteria, reduce pollutants (such as Benzene and Hydrocarbons) from 15% to 70%, smells nice (aromatherapy), benefits everyone in the house and with every breath (as opposed to one person inhaling, directly a few breaths).  So they're both good.  Wink  My personal practice is to have the diffuser going all the time (even as I write this post, love it) and to do direct inhalation if I feel any cough/cold/congestion (sometimes mixed with other herbs such as mullein, peppermint, borage, eucalyptus, etc.,).

Vaporising vs burning:  85°C is reportedly the "maximum temperature which proved to be the optimal temperature for the emission of the components without causing their alteration" (I have to research that further).  So if you could keep it close to that temp it would seem ideal.  That being said I have allowed propolis to cook to a crisp on the wood-stove, it did smoke lightly but was still quite pleasant.   Nothing at all like smoke from incense, which I believe many people still use (not me, I dislike smoke).  So if you're unable to keep the temp below the burning level it isn't too bad really.

I wonder how propolis vaporization would work in a CPAP machine? 
I suffer from Sleep Apnea as well as Asthma, Chronic Sinusitis, and Narcolepsy so if propolis vapor can help my asthma and siusitis I would be tickled pink.  I will have to give this some thought.  As yet I don't have enough propolis to harvest any as the bees in my apiary seem to go lite with it.  The Italians make as much as my other 3 hives put together yet they are not nearly as propolis prone as Italian bees I've had in the past.


CPAP Machine: if the machine is a model which draws ambient air (as opposed to from an oxygen tank) I would think that having a propolis diffuser in the room at the same time would be fine and with all the same benefits of unassisted breathing.  I would be hesitant to introduce repeated, concentrated propolis vapor streams into the CPAP due to potential adverse effects upon the flow generator (air pump).  A shot every once in a while may be a good natural disinfectant though.

Ailments: the marketing copy from one website lists: "Effective against bacteria, viruses, acari, fungi and molds, the Propolis Diffusers are exceptional when treating conditions of the respiratory system - pharingitis, laryngitis, sinusitis, otitis, asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, influenza, colds".  I've not suffered from any of these, can't prove propolis vapor is remedy nor preventative (I'm also using nano-colloidal ionic silver solution in an ultrasonic diffuser, have a "green" (non-toxic) home, etc., etc.,) but it surely couldn't cause any harm (Primum non nocere).  I'd say go for it Brian!  I have a suspicion it will help you.

No propolis?  I thought all beeks had too much propolis gumming up the works. Wink  I put one propolis collection mat on one hive... got a bit from that but it wasn't as easy to harvest as I would have hoped (put in freezer, flex and propolis is suppose to pop out... very little did).  I'm also into my honey supers scraping from the bodies and frames already.  Having this stuff diffusing every day, I can see how I could go through a lot (hope I make it thru the winter).  You've no frames/hives to scrape? 

Cheers,
Dane

Ps.  Whew... this thread is getting serious eh?  I think it's time for the disclaimer:
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dlmarti
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2007, 02:31:55 PM »

As bizarre, and OT, this thread has turned out...
I am still very surprised that someone hasn't created a perfume out of bee propolis, too me it is an extremely pleasant smell.
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Mici
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2007, 02:42:49 PM »

As bizarre, and OT, this thread has turned out...
I am still very surprised that someone hasn't created a perfume out of bee propolis, too me it is an extremely pleasant smell.

i'd say the biggest issue is, propolis doesn't smell the same on two different occasions/hives/locations.../...
propolis actually is a perfume, and every single batch is unique.

@dane
i know you enyoj your propolis very very much, but i'd advise you to stop this daily therapyes. and only because long term treatment creates higher immunity, which also creates immuner bacteria(or are they viruses?). anyway..i t's actually not wise, coz once you'll get sick, not a ton of propolis will help you, as oposed to people who don't use it daily.

i don't know, maybe i'm mistaking but..as soon as it starts to vapourise, i can see it and also i get the feeling i'm smelling burned propolis so...i'm kinda sceptical.bwah, i'll just soak it in some alcohol and just pour it directly into the lungs stomach (ok OT, but i have a pint of the stuff and use it as aftershave-best thing ever.)


still don't really know how to vapourise it without burning it, most of your methods (wooden stove-essential oil diffuser..) sound like "burning"
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2007, 07:18:53 PM »

Dane, that's a seriously strange looking kitty!  grin
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