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Author Topic: Will it harm the bees - Organic Insecticide for my Home Garden  (Read 2251 times)
mgmoore7
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« on: August 13, 2007, 10:43:09 AM »

My garden and my bees share the same space although I should be able to keep the insecticide from contacting the hive directly.  While some of my plants, the bees will work, I will have no where near enough to keep many bees busy.  I do expect though for the vegitables that need pollination from insects will benefit from my bees.

In my garden right now, all I have are tomatos, peppers and some herbs.  This fall I am planning a much more robust garden:  tomatos, peppers, lettuce, corn, spinach, strawberries, beans and a few others I can't think of right now.

We are trying to grow as organically as possible but know that bugs/fungus/etc will be an issue and I currently have a issue with stink bugs and western leaf footed bugs now on my tomatos.  I want to be sure to start a treatment "plan" from the beginning on my new plants. 

So far, all I have used is a homemade soap and oil solution but it is not effective against the above mentioned bugs.

I have been researching organic options.  The 2 that seem to keep showing up are:
1. Bon-neem (insecticidal soap) - http://www.bonideproducts.com/labels/pdf/bonneemconc.pdf
2. Rotenome/Pyrethrum (formulation of naturally occurring pesticides ) - http://www.bonideproducts.com/labels/pdf/rotenonepyrethrin.pdf

Do you have any experience with these and how they may or may not affect the bees.  Any other comments are welcome.

Thanks.
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2007, 11:01:01 AM »

i'm guessing here but i have experience using rotenone/pyretheum (not in relation to bees) and i think bees will find these fatal. as an organic grower i think of those as strong insecticides.
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ronbert
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 12:22:39 PM »

I have experience with both. The insecticidal soap will eliminate most of the pests in a garden
that eat any part of the sprayed plant. Also mix with BT which will get the "worm type" pests. Both
work when eaten by the pests. Spray in evening so you don't spray any bees that may be on the plant.
The insecticidal soap will block the bees breathing if directly applied to them.
The stink bugs can only be eliminated by pyretheum or other non organic chemicals. We don't use
non-organic chemicals ( I worked in the chemical industry for 40 years and really fear their effects).
Pyretheum comes from a group of flowers (painted lady and painted daisy are other names). Pyretheum
is used in a number of powders and soaps for pest control (also if put on a pond will kill all fish in pond
by binding on O2 in pond).

ron
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2007, 01:18:03 PM »

the soap sprays are your best bet, but i know your problem.  i ended up using an insecticide spray this year because the soap sprays were not doing the job.  i did spray only things that were not in bloom and were not attracting the bees.

hard choice.  if you used the soap sprays every other day or so, and could stay on that program, it might do the trick.  it works reasonably well for aphids, etc. if you are consistent.

i had a nasty infestation of thrips and the soap spray did not do it.
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2007, 01:44:07 PM »

I found a local hydro-ponic store just about 10 minutes from my office. 

I spoke to them about organic methods of controlling the bugs.  They said that one of their favorite organic methods is the solutions such as a garlic spray.  They find that they do a good job repelling many bugs and I don't think that is going to harm the bees.  I decided to try this.  The garlic concentrate was $11 and will make alot of spray.  I think I am also going to get on a regimen of the incecticidle soap. 

They also said that most of the organic insecticides require that they bug be presecent and get sprayed.  There is no residual effect.  Therefore, they did not think that if done at times when the bees are not as active, then there would be little to no impact on them.

Also, they said that for the bugs I referred to, using a vacuum to suck them off and then killing them is one of the best methods. 
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gunny
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2007, 08:45:01 PM »

I'd have to have no other options before resorting to insecticides around my bees.

Had a problem a few weeks ago with Japanese beetles in my fruit trees.  Found that they free fall a little before they try to fly, some don' try to fly at all until they hit the ground.  A 6" dog dish with an inch of oil in the bottom works great.  Put it under the bug and nudge him, it will land in the oil, can't swim in oil, they will sink and drown in short order. You can use about any oil, motor oil, olive oil, cooking oil, whatever.
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qa33010
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 02:02:56 AM »

    Thripes...do they look like tiny white grasshoppers about the size of ahids or a might smaller?  There are some Knockout Roses (rainbow bush) that I am deadheading and they have those grasshopper things on them.  The bees work the devil out of them every morning.  I was advised to get sevin liquid.  I am hesitant.
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 08:13:56 AM »

Sevin is the common pesticide for lots of bugs.  I can't imagine though that it would not have an impact on bees.  It is a strong insecticide and I believe (check me on this) it has residual effect. 

I sprayed the vegetibles last night with the garlic solution with some oil and soap added too as directed on the Garlic concentrate.  Boy oh boy that stuff stinks.  I am going to have to store it outside.  It is in my garage now and it smells bad.   

I will check the plants the next few days to see if it has any impact. 
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jcullen24
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 04:37:12 PM »

Einstein Oil  (which is Neem Oil) will do the trick. You need to mist your infected plants for for several days. As someone else said, make sure your bees don't get sprayed.  Another home remedy or organic spray is Cayenne Pepper in a mister.

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 08:01:38 PM »

Pyrethrum will kill bees.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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BEES4U
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2008, 10:46:35 AM »


Sevin
It is a strong carbanate pesticide and it is very toxic to bees!
You might consider using a light oil and water solution. i have used Green Light horticultural oil with good results.
Ernie
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DayValleyDahlias
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 01:27:16 AM »

For chewing insects I use Spinosad BUT I spray at dusk when the bees are in for the eve...Spinosad is OMRI but can harm bees for 2 hours after spraying.

For other bugs such as whitefly & aphids I will use Lily Miller Canola Oil Spray.  Nice thing is I let the lady bugs eat the aphids I really don't spray much and I have a good 1/4 acre flower farm.

If you keep the soil healthy and feed organic fertilizer and compost ( especially worm castings ) you will have very few pests.  It is all about balance...I have tons of beneficial insects doing my work for me!

I use Grants Any Stakes to control the Argentine ants ( which like to farm aphids )...
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