Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 18, 2014, 11:03:46 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat(1)  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: sugar vs HFCS  (Read 3322 times)
afretired
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 38

Location: Green County Kentucky


« on: August 13, 2007, 07:42:00 AM »

I'm certain this has been beat to death but I couldn't find the answer.  The distance from my home to Sams Club is about as far as my home to Walter Kelly's.  This weekend I bought five gallons (55lb) of HFCS for $19.95 which came with a bucket.  I can buy 50 lbs of sugar at Sams for $19.34 and mix my own.  Which is the best value.  Is 50lbs of sugar and 50lbs of HFCS about the same as far as the bees are concerned?

Dave
Logged
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2007, 08:30:19 AM »

strange...
i heard HFSC is ridiculusly cheap compared to sugar.
HFCS is not the very best food for the bees, now....if i had the oportunity to choose, i'd still go for sugar, but that is due to our winters.
HFCS has a lot of solids in so it's not very good for overwintering, and still sugar is the best food for bees (artificial food for bees, so to speak) and if the price is the same..don't we all want the best for our bees?
Logged
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 09:16:32 AM »

Dave, we were taught in our beekeeping not to use HFCS for the bees, it contains impurities, plain and simple white sugar, mixed 2:1 with water.  The only time we were taught to use 1:1 sugar syrup mixture is in the spring, for a short time to stimulate the queen to lay.  Other than that 2:1, it is thicker and more expensive, but the bees have to work less to reduce the water content to make it decent food for them to feed upon.

I would use the HFCS that you have, you already have purchased it and I doubt you could return it.  Many commercial (and hobby too) beekeepers use HFCS, cheaper, but it is definitely not as good for the bees digestion.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  Plain and simple.  From now on, use the white sugar, it may be a little more expensive, but we need to take the best care of our bees we can.  Have a wonderful day, beautiful life.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 613

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2007, 10:05:18 AM »

According to one of this years ABJ publishings.  A university in Texas did a study on the impact of HFCS on honeybees.  They determined that granulated sugar is the best food substitute for honeybees.  In fact HFCS shortens the life span of a honeybee by something like 15 days.

Bottom line.  If you want to keep your bees dont use HFCS.  Most of the local commercial Beeks have stopped using it this year.
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
afretired
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 38

Location: Green County Kentucky


« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2007, 10:13:14 AM »

Cindi

Sorry for my confusion, please bear with me.

white sugar, mixed 2:1 with water.  The only time we were taught to use 1:1 sugar syrup mixture is in the spring, for a short time to stimulate the queen to lay.  Other than that 2:1, it is thicker and more expensive, but the bees have to work less to reduce the water content to make it decent food for them to feed upon.

Let me see if I have this straight.
Normally you would feed with a 2:1 ratio, except in the spring when you want to stimulate the queen to lay, then you would use a 1:1 ratio.

I can understand the 1:1 ratio. But on the 2:1, is that 2 parts sugar and one part water or vise versa? And if it is 2 sugar/1 water. How does a thinner mixture stimulate the queen to lay?


Thanks
Dave
Logged
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2007, 11:25:29 AM »

2 parts sugar, 1 part water, yes that's 2:1, she also wrote compared to thiner 1:1 Wink so it's pretty obvious, anyway...

2:1 is THICK so bees need smaller ammounts, that is why it's better to feed the 1:1 ratio in the sprind, so the bees get the filling LOTS is getting in and still not filling the whole hive.

now, i don't wanna mess with anyones feeding or to even teach one how to feed but i find 1:1 ratio the most suitable
-you don't really need hot water to dissolve the sugar
-it's still strong enough so it doesn't go bad
-just like in spring, queen is stimulated to lay eggs in the fall
-bees are much happier to "eat" the 1:1 compared to the thick 2:1

but that's just me and my point of view.
Logged
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 01:35:23 PM »

There are some very varying opinions on what to feed the bees.  One instructor of mine said that he always, always fed the bees 2:1 sugar syrup, meaning 2 parts sugar to 1 part water.  Never anything different.

Another instructor (the Asian commercial beekeeper) whom I took Level 1 and 2 beekeeping with, contends that in the spring to feed 1:1 sugar syrup when feeding.  The idea behind the 1:1 in the spring is that it simulates the nectar flow, it makes the bees basically think there is a nectar flow going on and it stimulates the bees to get the queen going faster.  I presume that this is pretty correct, I trust my instructor, he has taught many a good lesson and was always there when I needed some pretty simple questions answered when I was beginning in apiculture.  I was a lucky woman to have him as my guide and I appreciate him more than he would ever know.

2:1 sugar syrup is hard to dissolve.  Known fact.  But, we were taught to have the sugar syrup solution almost to a boil, I say almost, that allows the sugar to remain in a colloidal state and it does not granulate.

Also, the syrup should not go bad, unless it is held for a long time.  When feeding the bees, it is better to give them smaller amounts, frequently, rather than larger amounts, less frequently.  This means a little more work for the beekeeper, but it is better in many ways.

I have had 2:1 sugar syrup granulate in the hive, but that was because I made the mistake of giving the bees too much and it granulated before they could use it all up.  That was a mistake, I know that.  I also know that I didn't have the sugar syrup hot enough to keep in a liquid form, another mistake.

These are only my opinions.  There is an old saying, ask 10 beekeepers how to do something and you will get 10 different answers.  grin  BUT....that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.  Have this wonderful day, a beautiful life to go with it, and love the life we're livin'.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 03:51:13 PM »

When feeding the bees, it is better to give them smaller amounts, frequently, rather than larger amounts, less frequently.  This means a little more work for the beekeeper, but it is better in many ways.

almost everything you wrote is more or less personal choice and of course judgement based on experience.
however, this line deserves underlining.
Logged
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 10:37:16 PM »

I was told the price of HFCS was suppose to increase by a large margin because  they are using the corn for Ethanol thought i would share this interesting tid bit  Smiley     liquid sucrose is better for the bees any way  RDY-B
Logged
Bennettoid
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 352


Location: Ocean City, Maryland, USA


« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2007, 07:26:12 AM »

I was told that HFCS could be a contributing factor in CCD.
Logged

steve
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62

Location: western NC


« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2007, 08:24:40 AM »

To answer your question Dave, the better deal is the dry sugar.
Why? Becauce the bees will still have to evaporate some of the water from the HFCS which will increace your cost per pound even futher.....also HFCS will crestalise in your bucket if not used within a month or so......the big boys keep it heated while in storage so it will stay in liquid form.........2to1 mix is the only way to go this time of the year...to be safe boil your water first then pour it on your sugar in a seperate container....
                                                                   good look,
                                                                        Steve
Logged
imabkpr
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 138

Location: Bishopville, South Carolina


« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2007, 08:46:15 AM »

  I find that it is better to add dry sugar to hot water rather than to add hot water to dry sugar. Charlie
Logged
afretired
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 38

Location: Green County Kentucky


« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2007, 10:10:25 AM »

Thanks for all the great information.  Just as soon as I feed up this 5 gallon bucket of HFCS, I'll start mixing sugar.  I have a military M59 Field Range Stove that will be great for mixing up a batch of sugar.  I can set it out in the yard and it is fueled with gasoline, completly enclosed oven is capable of cooking 15 gallons at a time. It came with the big cooker pots and everything needed to set up a field kitchen. 

Dave
Logged
KONASDAD
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2011


Location: Cherry Hill, N.J.


« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2007, 11:06:45 AM »

I fed one 5gal bucket of HFCS last year and went back to sugar water for the reasons stated above. As for CCD being casued by HFCS... if you believe GMO crops are contributing to CCD and HFCS is made from GMO corn, then it should follow that GMO by-products would be in HCFS in a more concentarted form.
Logged

"The more complex the Mind, the Greater the need for the simplicity of Play".
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 613

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2007, 11:17:58 AM »

I have found that just hot tap water is fine for dissolving the sugar even at the 2:1 ratio.  Boiling is an option but not really needed from what I have found. 

Only mix up enough sugar water that you need at the time though as it will grow bacteria and wild yeast....

Unless you want to get your bees drunk....
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
bberry
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 95


Location: Sebastopol California

Playing with wool is good for your soul


« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2007, 12:52:17 PM »

This subject may be posted out but just wanted to give my take if people are having a hard time melting the sugar. I give my bees one gallon of sugar syrup at a time per hive and i am feeding two hives. To mix i place amount of sugar in one gallon containers, then boil a full tea kettle of water and pour this in two equal amounts over the sugar (this is only the amount of water that will fit in a tea kettle so maybe four cups per gallon) and mix this until the sugar is desolved. Then i add enough cold water to this to make up the gallon. Never had crystalization and it works great-the addition of the cold water gets the liquid cooled really fast and ready to serve!
Logged
afretired
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 38

Location: Green County Kentucky


« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2007, 02:02:34 PM »

Will boiling the water kill the yeast and the bacteria that cause the sugar water to spoil?

Dave
Logged
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2007, 02:38:57 PM »

hmmm i think that 1:1 is too strong concetrated sugar to even spoil. at least i have never had spoiled syrup, even after a few months. so it really shouldn't ferment.

i had some...1:3 mixture (in favour of water) and it went bad, but 1:1, never.
Logged
wtiger
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 179

Location: East Central Missouri


« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 01:09:20 AM »

I've just been putting 5lbs of sugar in a used but throughly cleaned 1 gal milk jug then filling with hot tap water then throughly shaking.  Works like a charm for a roughly 1:1 mix.
Logged
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 01:15:18 AM »

So....don't feed HFCS.  It has too many impurities and it is hard on the gut of the bee, they can't get rid of the crap in it properly.

When I mix 2:1 s.s. I boil the water, add the sugar, stirring constantly, not wanting the sugar to burn, bring it almost to the boiling point, then cool.  We are all putting in our two cents worth and every cent is worth lots and lots.  Yeah!!!!!  Don't ya love our forum?  Great day, best of this life, Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.158 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page February 09, 2014, 11:55:22 AM
anything