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Author Topic: Pesticide Liability  (Read 3983 times)
Dane Bramage
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 02:11:49 PM »

So - does this 'residual pesticide' theory make sense?


Yes indeed.  Check it out ~> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_toxicity_to_bees
e.g.
Quote
By far the most potentially damaging pesticides for honey bees are those packaged in tiny capsules (microencapsulated). Microencapsulated methyl parathion (PennCap M®), for example, is a liquid formulation containing capsules approximately the size of pollen grains which contain the active ingredient. When bees are out in the field, these capsules can become attached electrostatically to the pollen-collecting hairs of the insects, and at times are collected by design. When stored in pollen, the slow-release feature of the capsules allows the methyl parathion to be a potential killer for several months. At the present time, there is no way to detect whether bees are indeed poisoned by micro-encapsulated methyl parathion, so a beekeeper potentially could lose replacement bees for those already poisoned by the pesticide.
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LocustHoney
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2007, 06:48:10 PM »

I think some of us would feel different if it were our bees dying off..... Cry
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Casimir
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2007, 08:01:23 PM »

Mosquito control poisons apparently are not residual, and they dissapate quickly.

So - does this 'residual pesticide' theory make sense?


From a mosquito control website. "In general, the chemical can be gone within 15 minutes of application or last almost 4 hours after application."
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wayne
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2007, 09:15:18 PM »

  As a former pesticide applicator, I can assure you there are a metric ton of rules and laws both state and federal that cover the use of pesticides.
  And that just about everyone who applies them for money has rules and policies to reduce the risk of the damage you are seeing.
  However, that said, no one is a mind reader when it comes to knowing what's behind every fence and hedge. When I worked for the county on mosquitos we had no spray zones for beekeepers who called in and signed up. But it was up to the beek to call in.
  When I was in private employment we asked the customer about things like bee hives and allergies before we chose a product. But we had no way of knowing if they told the truth or even knew themselves.
  Unless you have a sign in plain view, and it is common knowledge you keep bees, or you have contacted the local agencies and told them of your hobby, then they have no way of knowing they are there.
  I remember on one of my mosquito routes I was spraying along a rural road and happened to look back at a house I had passed. There tucked in behind a row of bushes was a beehive not 30 feet off the road. I had about a half dozen no sprays on that route but no mention of this hive.
  They tell you in pesticide schools that the lable is the law. To use any product in a manner not shown on the lable is ilegal. If you have the money, you can have the bees tested and find out what killed them. Then check the neighbors and see who had a bug problem. Then you have a target for your lawsuit, or someone to report to the proper agency.
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I was born about 100 years too early, or to late.
beehive lane
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 12:38:41 AM »

What about the double whammy of herbacides added to the pesticides? I need to talk to my neighbor up the lane. He is shooting turtles in the pond and putting herbacides on everything. I wanted to plant flowers by our postboxes, he didnt like to weedwhack....herbacide. The fence had weeds...herbacide. Well, hey, chemicals worked for our parents. His garden is near the lane, his garden is nearly dead. his poultry was near the fence, dead....HuhHuh?? His pond is the begining of the stream that runs through our property. Connected to him are countless number of people that pollute with chemicals. Where and how does it end. I will talk to him, and I will register with the county and city. Maybe the masses will get it. Maybe they wont. I have a fortune from a fortune cookie framed, it  reads "follow your true beliefs."  ----Syd
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Syd
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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2007, 07:39:37 AM »

Good ponit Sid. It is like the organic stuff I try to eat. If you do some research on the organic farms the food comes form you will find out that only a percentage of the farm is organic. The rest....regular ol' pesticide produce. What happens when the rain comes and washes off the pesticide from the one into the other??? Nothing. As long as they don't treat the one they claim is organic all is well. That is a bunch or crap if you ask me!!! I am with you. I would like to start a mass movement. They only way to do that now-a-days is to do it with your pocketbook. Do some research and buy from those whose farms are all organic. Not the 10 to 60 percent fly by nighters!!!
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steve
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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2007, 09:05:48 AM »

Arco, you're off to a good start, do your research first....
  Make sure you really have pesticide poisoning, invite one of your state bee inspectors out to assay the damage and possible
 determine the offending chemical....if it is indeed pesticide
poisoning remember you have roughly a 2.5 mile radius from your hives to search. Also the burden of proof is on you...
                                                      good luck,
                                                              Steve
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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2007, 09:34:33 AM »

Meanwhile, West Nile is now officially @ epidemic levels & Gov. declares West Nile emergency in three California counties

Quote
In Sacramento County, authorities said Monday that West Nile had reached an epidemic rate there and had to be combatted with a mass aerial-spraying campaign – often considered a last resort. More than 55,000 acres of urban neighborhoods north of the American River were scheduled to be sprayed.


Again, good luck!
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kathyp
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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2007, 10:18:57 AM »

you guys are right about the over use of pesticides and herbicides.  it is tempting, especially as we get older, to spray roundup rather than weed whack or mow.  it is also tempting to fall back on old pesticides without trying other ways of insect control.

on the other hand......all things in moderation...including the so called 'organic' and 'all natural' ways of doing things.  we do not want to end up like many countries where malaria is common, people go blind from parasites, liver flukes and tape worms are the norm, and our food is covered with flies and maggots.  most of us have never seen this and certainly not experienced it.  the difference between how they live (bug wise) and how we live, is pesticides.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
arco
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2007, 12:46:45 PM »

So - does this 'residual pesticide' theory make sense?

Yes indeed.  Check it out ~> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_toxicity_to_bees
e.g.
Quote
By far the most potentially damaging pesticides for honey bees are those packaged in tiny capsules (microencapsulated). Microencapsulated methyl parathion (PennCap M®), for example, is a liquid formulation containing capsules approximately the size of pollen grains which contain the active ingredient. When bees are out in the field, these capsules can become attached electrostatically to the pollen-collecting hairs of the insects, and at times are collected by design. When stored in pollen, the slow-release feature of the capsules allows the methyl parathion to be a potential killer for several months. At the present time, there is no way to detect whether bees are indeed poisoned by micro-encapsulated methyl parathion, so a beekeeper potentially could lose replacement bees for those already poisoned by the pesticide.

I have looked at Dane's link - it contains some pretty grim information - and the pesticide effects it describes match what I am seeing in my hive. 

Is there a legitimate need for slow-release pesticides like micro-encapsulated methyl parathion??  Is there any way to determine with certainty the type of pesticide that is killing my bees??  (our county agriculture dept doesn't have the equipment for this type of analysis)

My bees are continuing to die and I think my hive is a goner.  I opened the hive today, and saw the queen stumbling about like she is on her last legs.

It looks as if the pesticide was spread by a neighbor - it could be anyone within a mile radius of my house.  I live in an urban area - there may be a thousand or more houses within the bees range.  I don't see how I can trace the poisoning to the source.

So I am preparing for the end of my hive and thinking about getting things ready for next season. 

Right now I've got two supers full of honey.  And two hive bodies full of brood, pollen and honey.  What do I do with these?

Will the combs still be toxic next spring when I introduce a new package??

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Dane Bramage
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« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2007, 01:20:06 PM »

That is disheartening news arco.  Cry

I (thankfully) have no experience with insecticide poisoning/decontamination, so don't have any answers for you.  I believe you are correct that it would be nigh impossible to locate the source in an urban environment.  I would strongly consider relocation of the hives to a more environmentally friendly locale.  A friend of mine in San Mateo had mentioned someone keeping bees in the Crystal Springs reservoir/reserve.  Unsure what contacts/friends would be required to make that happen, but it sure would be the ticket!

"23,000 acres of wild and pristine lands" just up the road from you.

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kathyp
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« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2007, 02:06:06 PM »

Quote
Will the combs still be toxic next spring when I introduce a new package??

that's a good question. if i had to make that decision, i think i'd start over.  if the bees were collecting from contaminated sources and you don't know what the contaminate was, there is no way to be sure that the comb, pollen, and honey would be ok for next year.

wondered if you had a beekeeping group in your area? they might be able to point you in the right direction for testing and advice on what to do.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 05:09:37 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2007, 04:54:39 PM »

can this hive be relocated?  some irogant person might be doing the spraying because they dont like the bees or something.
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arco
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« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2007, 09:49:57 PM »

Unfortunately it is not easy to move the hives to another location.



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