Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: benifits of grafting  (Read 2526 times)

Offline bluegrass

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
benifits of grafting
« on: July 15, 2007, 08:38:05 PM »
I haven't ever grafted, but am thinking I will start. I have a colony from a cut out that has five med. brood boxes. I decided to raise all my queens off of it this year. I saw the queen the day I did the cutout this past spring. I caught and caged her and a few days later removed the cage from the hive. She lays really well and they draw out frames faster than any of my other hives. I tried seperating every box and going through it, but there are so many bees that all I end up with is bees all over the outside of each box as I go through and am unable to find the queen.
I am thinking that I am going to forget about finding the queen and just pull frames and try grafting fresh hatched brood. So what I do know is that I can pull swarm cells and use the royal jelly to prime my cells. Can I dilute the royal jelly and what do I dilute it with? 
Sugarbush Bees

Offline TwT

  • Senior Forum
  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 3384
  • Ted
Re: benefits of grafting
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 06:28:14 AM »
you can delute it with water but slightly, if you was to buy royal jelly 1/2 - 1/2 works but dont think so out of a cell, I prefer dry cell grafting, you get some royal jelly from the cell when you graft anyway, just feed when you graft whether there is a flow going or not.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 07:04:42 AM by TwT »
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic

Offline bluegrass

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 06:40:03 AM »
I looked around and the only place I have seen it for sale is the health food store.....will this food grade processed royal jelly work? Its kinda expensive, like 40.00 for an ounce.
Sugarbush Bees

Offline TwT

  • Senior Forum
  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 3384
  • Ted
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 06:49:38 AM »
this is where I know a few that prime cells buy there's, 12 0z. for 100 bucks, you can get 4 oz for 23 bucks.



http://www.glorybeefoods.com/gbf/Shop_List.cfm?PC=21&PSC=36&P=&S=&Sale=&New=&StartRow=21&Token=207.144.135.4:{ts_2007-07-16_02:45:35}-119290
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic

Offline peggjam

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 09:40:05 AM »
I dry graft all my cells.  I havn't found it nessarcery to prime the cells.  But if you really want to, you could pull some rj out of cells that have older larva in them, and use that. :)

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14433
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 08:02:22 PM »
I've tried priming and not.  I see no difference.  I would not bother.  Jay Smith by Better Queens had come to the same conclusion.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline bluegrass

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2007, 06:52:32 AM »
So I shouldn't bother priming.....Less steps is good. I think I remember Robin mentioning  a class on grafting, I should look into taking, but in the mean time I plan on just winging it :-D 
My plan is to go through the hive and pull two frame of eggs, moving them to the top box so I can watch for them to hatch and then grafting out of them.....Good or bad Idea? I really don't want to shake down this whole hive to find the queen.....I have harrassed them enough in the past two weeks looking for her and I don't want to risk it anymore.
Sugarbush Bees

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14433
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2007, 07:41:44 AM »
Smith also gave up double grafting which is similar in results except that it's even fresher food:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#What%20Promised%20to%20be%20a%20Bright%20Idea%20Proved%20to%20be%20Very%20Dim
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline smallswarm

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 08:17:45 AM »
Mr. Bush, I read Better Queens on your site. You have been using Smith's method with your feral stock, right? It makes good sense to cut out a strip of some brand new comb for the bees to form queen cells, but I wasn't able to understand exactly how you attach the new comb with eggs to the top bar? How do you do it on your farm? Thanks.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14433
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 09:16:29 PM »
>Mr. Bush, I read Better Queens on your site. You have been using Smith's method with your feral stock, right?

Not really.

> It makes good sense to cut out a strip of some brand new comb for the bees to form queen cells, but I wasn't able to understand exactly how you attach the new comb with eggs to the top bar?

Smith attached it with some melted beeswax.

> How do you do it on your farm?

Mostly I use a Jenter box and transfer the larvae.  Sometimes I graft when the queen didn't lay in the box to my satisfaction or I didn't get the chance to confine her.  I have also done the Hopkins method, which doesn't require cutting the comb into strips:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline Mici

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Gender: Male
  • tougher than rock
    • http://www.carantha.net/carantha_table_of_contents.htm
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2007, 04:40:02 AM »
a quickie...
How long can larvae live outside the hive, without incubator and stuff, at room temperature.
are the eggs any less sensitive to changes?

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14433
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: benifits of grafting
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 10:54:35 PM »
I have never seen them raise queens from eggs in cell cups.  They just remove them.  You need just hatched larvae that is swimming in royal jelly.

I don't know what the outside limit on larvae is, but I haul them into the house to graft and it takes me 30 or 45 minutes to get it done and put them back out and most are accepted.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen