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Offline newbee07

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dissapointed beekeeper!
« on: July 06, 2007, 09:28:49 AM »
I was just wanting some future outlooks or opinions on something that happened that made me really mad. I am in my first year of raising bees and selling honey hoping to grow into something big, and along comes someone close, real close up th road that has all the money in the world and buys thousands of dollars in equipment and over 1000 hives and is attempting to start his own business as well right on top of mine. He knows nothing about bees not even the slightest thing, But i'm worried that it will kill me out one way or the other, Does anyone have any opinions or similar happenings they have experienced before?

Offline randydrivesabus

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2007, 09:31:57 AM »
isn't his market different than yours?

Offline Cindi

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2007, 09:53:36 AM »
Newbee07.  Awe, that is a bummer.  It is like the great big stores over running the little stores that once were.  I hope that things work out well for you.  You may indeed have a different niche in the market with your honey though.  Sometimes, people will still go to the "little guy" instead of the "giant" in the marketplace.  I know that I do many times.  Good luck.  Have a wonderful day, great life.  Cindi
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Offline JP

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 11:32:12 AM »
Newbee07, sometimes the big guys use chemicals because their operation is so large, and if you don't, you have an attractive product over your neighbors.

I know you are fuming over this, but perhaps something good can come out of this. Have you met this person? If not I would introduce myself and befriend this person, I wouldn't give any hard earned secrets away, but perhaps you two can co-exist to the benefit of the both of you. I am one to always look for the positive, and this is just my 2cents, hope I didn't offend. Things just may work out better than you realize. Please keep us posted, and good luck. Remember, competition can be a good thing.
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Offline KONASDAD

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 11:42:34 AM »
if you cant , join him. or he may be violating zoning w/ that many hives.
"The more complex the Mind, the Greater the need for the simplicity of Play".

Online kathyp

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 12:57:08 PM »
i have a resurrected commercial operation not to far from me.  grandpa died and after a couple of years, the family decided to go back into business.  i suspect that my bees are competing for forage, but that's the way it goes.

my beekeeping neighbors are nice.  i don't know them well, but after i talked to them at the farmers market, they invited me to come by and take a look at some stuff they were going to sell, etc.  i hope to get to know them better, but other than the competition for by bees, they pose no problem for me.

you might try getting to know them.  if they are going into the honey business and you get enough surplus, maybe you can work a deal with them.  share advertising, etc.  if you are offering something they are not, they may be interested in helping you out.  your line could be the Organic Ltd, or something  :-).

be creative!  in a free market the guy with the bestest ideas and the fastest implementation, gets the gold ring.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline pdmattox

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 01:11:55 PM »
In my opinion I would do like JP said, and befriend this guy. Who knows where  it may lead, it may very well be a good aliance. It won't be like all his hives will be in one spot, but rather spread out over many outyards.  I hope all works out and definetly keep us posted.  If the above does'nt work you could do it the old fashoned way and burn the newcomer out.(just kidding, so don't even think about it.) :evil:

Offline Moonshae

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 01:12:04 PM »
Disappointing, but all is not lost:

There's still a demand for honey, so as long as there's demand, there's room for you both.

Perhaps his 1000 hives will provide swarms for you to collect for free, whereas he likely paid for all his bees.

He also has made a substantial financial investment, and will take much longer to turn a real profit, whereas your investment is much smaller and thus is more likely to be profitable sooner.

The larger investment also increases the risk of failure of his business. If his business fails, you may be able to buy his hives and equipment for a good price as he tries to recoup anything he can.
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Offline Patrick

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 01:18:08 PM »
I concur with JP. A fuzzy fearsome, but wise monster. Keep your friends close and your (in this case) competition closer.
Cheers

Offline BeeHopper

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2007, 02:24:27 PM »
I was just wanting some future outlooks or opinions on something that happened that made me really mad. I am in my first year of raising bees and selling honey hoping to grow into something big, and along comes someone close, real close up th road that has all the money in the world and buys thousands of dollars in equipment and over 1000 hives and is attempting to start his own business as well right on top of mine. He knows nothing about bees not even the slightest thing, But i'm worried that it will kill me out one way or the other, Does anyone have any opinions or similar happenings they have experienced before?

The key here for you is patience and baby steps in learning the ins and out of beekeeping as a hobby, then move up to a sideline and then a biz. You can grow with your learning curve and $$$$. I suspect that the guy with the 1000 hives you mentioned will fail miserably if he knows nothing of the trade unless he employs professional beeks to help him along. I'd introduce myself to him and let it be known of your aspirations. Good luck and don't despair  :-D

Offline newbee07

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2007, 02:46:12 PM »
Well, i will talk to him because i see him about every day and have known him for about 9 years or longer. I assume he thinks you have a box with bees in it and the make you honey to jar up and seel. As we all know it's not like that. He has no idea i beleive what it just took on. So i may end up with some good equip. in storage for later use. He can't afford to hire pros. and besides there is none around here to work for someone else. I keep posted. thanks

Offline DayValleyDahlias

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2007, 02:57:02 PM »
I have found, that there is always enough for everyone!  His market may be different than yours...some people seek out the less commercial seller ( people like me )...I prefer to buy from the "small" farmer, even if it means paying just a bit more...I feel that SOMETIMES the quality of the product is better and more of a genuine consciousness went into the product,making it even better!

Don't waste your time worrying about the other guy, spend your efforts focusing on doing the best you can, first for the bees, second for you! :-*

Offline BeeHopper

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2007, 04:27:56 PM »
Well, i will talk to him because i see him about every day and have known him for about 9 years or longer. I assume he thinks you have a box with bees in it and the make you honey to jar up and seel. As we all know it's not like that. He has no idea i beleive what it just took on. So i may end up with some good equip. in storage for later use. He can't afford to hire pros. and besides there is none around here to work for someone else. I keep posted. thanks

Are we talking about 1000+ hives of bees or new empty hives ??? I see this guy will crash and burn if he knows nothing about beekeeping . :shock: Good luck to both of you and God Bless the Bees  :)

Offline doak

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 04:54:22 PM »
Like BeeHopper said, He may be headed for a "big" disappointment.
I have never heard of anyone starting anything at the top if they didn't have experence and didn't crash.
Who puts the chimney and roof up before the foundation and wall are erected.
Most part if he plans for any area to supply enough forage for that many hives then he knows less then nothing about the trade.
Sit back and watch, but carry on with your program as if he isn't there.
Time will tell, always does.
doak

Offline BeeHopper

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2007, 05:17:32 PM »
Who puts the chimney and roof up before the foundation and wall are erected.

A good way of putting things into perspective, doak  ;)

Offline rdy-b

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2007, 02:15:20 AM »
Thousand hives @ $100 =100,000  to big of a bite to start with.the guy wont make it if he is green.         THere Is A Saying About Beekeeping; If you want to end up with a million dollars keeping bees you had better start with two million. A thousand hives is more like a way of life. must be some stretching of the facts on his part. a hundred hives  would be good. they will end up yours anyway.remember this you dont get to chose to be a great beekeeper - the bees will chose for you  RDY-B

Offline newbee07

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2007, 11:54:41 PM »
i was asked by him if i could show him how the equipment worked and tell him a little about beekeeping. :-X :-D was my response. I didn't learn for nothing to teach someone else thats trying to hurt me, even though i thinks he won't be able to.

Offline Holycow

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 12:16:45 AM »
Go for quality over quantity. With fewer hives you can devote more time to making sure your final product is notably better than his. The free market does work. He can sell his stuff at higher volume but lower quality, and you can sell smaller amounts of higher quality product and still make a profit.
Good luck!

Online kathyp

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2007, 12:34:17 AM »
i would think you would be looking for a friend, not an adversary.  you may not end up with a friend by helping him, but you surely will not have a friend by not helping him.  what do you have to lose?

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline BBHJ

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Re: dissapointed beekeeper!
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2007, 05:43:11 PM »
i would think you would be looking for a friend, not an adversary.  you may not end up with a friend by helping him, but you surely will not have a friend by not helping him.  what do you have to lose?

If you would thoroughly know anything, teach it to others.
Tryon Edwards


The thing is that they've known each other/ have been friends for a long time now. IMO the guy saw an opritunity to make alot of money & thinks that he can do so buy doing something that newbeeo7 got him interested into in the first place. I call it greedy because the guy already has a couple of other things going that are doing well. He then jumps into this head first at the deep end & is going to try to start out on top and take as many customers away from newbee as well as all of the other smaller beekeepers in the area that he can. Also knowing all along that newbee07's intentions were/are to grow into the "BIG GUY" of that same area. Now here's the question,  is there anything wrong with that? No, but this guy cant expect to remain, or become friends with newbee07 or any other small beekeeper with the same goals as newbee in this area. I know I wouldnt help him learn how to keep bees the least bit. It would be a major "learn from your mistakes" move for him. $$$ = the root of all evil. This not only appys to this guys move by trying to take all the business (and IMO this is his intentions, because he doesnt know ANY THING about beekeeping, and therefore doesnt know that taking ALL of the business IS NOT possible) but would apply to my countermove as well. By me not helping him out so that I could make more money, and not loose any customers that I can help from loosing. Two can play the game   :evil:. I would think different if he started out with a few hives or even with like 20-30 and was interested in learning all that he can about bees, attending beekeeping meetings ect. instead of just being interested in making all the money that he can. I would help him out all that I could If that were the case because I would know that he is interested in bees & beekeeping first & making money second (just as I am) instead of the other way around.