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Author Topic: Remember conspiracy theorist  (Read 4915 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2007, 04:35:48 PM »

RDB.  i did not say uneductated....i would say, uninformed.  or more accuratly...informed by their emotions rather than facts.

BM

everyone i know of who met clinton liked him.  his likability was never an issue.  his performance as a leader was.  he came into office already being investigated in Arkansas, thus, the theory goes...the firing of the appointed state attorneys.

i don't think you'll see gore/obama.  obama is inexperience, not stupid.

as for how a president makes decisions....if i had to make a choice between a man of faith trying to do what he thought was right before god, and a man who checked polls and the prevailing political winds before doing anything, i'd take the man of faith.  almost all of our presidents have been very open about their faith and many have been open about seeking the will of god in what they did.  it is only in the ACLU age that we find such confessions strange.

there are far left wing nuts and far right wing nuts.  most of us fall in that middle somewhere.  i am father right than most of you, probably  smiley. liberals in general are not really moving.  they are where they have always been.  the leadership of the left, has gone far left.  that is not a place that most of us want to be.  they are invested in the failure of the US as a world leader, and in war.  they declared it. they own it.  they will look rather foolish if they are wrong, so it is in their interest to make sure they are not wrong.  if you want to understand how very committed they are to the failure of the US, listen to Feingold.  you could listen to HR, but i wouldn't ask anyone to do that.

i would be interested in an example of how bush was governed by faith rather than law to make a decision.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2007, 05:11:00 PM »

so in a democracy, where the majority rules, faith is more important than the majority?
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kathyp
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2007, 05:20:51 PM »

the US is not a democracy.

most people in the US are people of some kind of faith.  the majority calling themselves christians (this includes catholics).

a specific example??
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2007, 05:35:12 PM »

specific example of what?
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kathyp
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2007, 05:40:46 PM »

Quote
faith is more important than the majority

in what case has faith been more important than the majority?

may i also point out that in many instances in history, the majority has not ruled.  in other cases, the majority has ruled and been wrong.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2007, 05:51:28 PM »

i'm glad we live in a place where you and i can believe what we want. let me just end my participation in this there.
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2007, 05:52:17 PM »

Bennettoid

i am stubborn, opinionated, prone to aggressive driving, and expressing myself in 4 letter words.  i am trying to clean up my act, but i suspect death will catch me before the job is done  smiley


PS...i used to be a liberal  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2007, 05:53:47 PM »

Quote
i'm glad we live in a place where you and i can believe what we want

there you go  smiley 

people can always believe what they want.  we have the good fortune to be able to express what we believe!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2007, 06:06:48 PM »

liberals always amuse me with their lack of knowledge of history, the constitution, law, and current events.  i do feel your pain about TSA!  after all.....it is all about how we feel.

thank god FDR didn't have to deal with this congress, the ny times, and all these FEELINGS.....we'd either be speaking german, or drinking green tea.......he didn't deal with the constitution either......imagin that!
Once again you make the mistake of assuming I am a liberal when I am not.

And FDR did have to deal with the congress. The hearings on the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
The Roberts commision one of many investigations that took place withing a short period of time after the December 7th bombing.

Now I have never supported the tossing of the constitution into the garbage in a time of crises. The internment of the Japanesse Americans was wrong. The revoking of Habius Corpus by Lincoln was just as wrong then as it is now by Bush. The 9/11 attacks do create a need for a national ID or an embedded chip.

The national ID program whether chip embedded or ID card is a joke that does nothing. The problem is there is some much that already exists that it will probably slide in without a much more than a whimper.

Sincerely,
Brendhan


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« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2007, 06:06:58 PM »

Bennettoid

i am stubborn, opinionated, prone to aggressive driving, and expressing myself in 4 letter words.  i am trying to clean up my act, but i suspect death will catch me before the job is done  smiley


PS...i used to be a liberal  smiley
What's that saying?  (S)He who is young and not liberal has no heart, (s)he who is old and not conservative has no brain  evil  I was a liberal too, once.  Age and life has taught me many lessons.  And Kathy, I dispute that you are the furthest to the right here.  There's room over there for both, no, many of us.

And Brendhan, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.  So far your posts have put you squarely in the liberal corner.  I'm a conservative independent at this point, the R's have pushed me there, but I'm definitely a social conservative (without the religious overtones).
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« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2007, 06:11:38 PM »

I grew up in a with liberal parents went to a conservative catholic school have been both. I became disappointed with both. So I am neither.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2007, 03:06:38 PM »

Bennettoid

i am stubborn, opinionated, prone to aggressive driving, and expressing myself in 4 letter words.  i am trying to clean up my act, but i suspect death will catch me before the job is done  smiley


PS...i used to be a liberal  smiley

You sound like me, my wife was laughing when I showed her that.

What's that saying?  (S)He who is young and not liberal has no heart, (s)he who is old and not conservative has no brain  evil  I was a liberal too, once.  Age and life has taught me many lessons.  And Kathy, I dispute that you are the furthest to the right here.  There's room over there for both, no, many of us.

And Brendhan, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.  So far your posts have put you squarely in the liberal corner.  I'm a conservative independent at this point, the R's have pushed me there, but I'm definitely a social conservative (without the religious overtones).

Let's start a club!
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qa33010
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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2007, 09:58:32 PM »

Yeah.  I do have a big problem with it.  I was one of those that said yes I will not be tracked.  I still say it.  My wife got me a cell phone and I only take it when I know I'll absolutely need it.  My kids will not be chipped nor will my pets.  Yeah, chances taken by not having a phone with me...so what.  I did okay for quite afew years back.  I'll stay with snail mail and the occasional time on the home phone.  As well as burn anything with my info on it by bar code or ssn.  If I need it to get meds...oh well.  I firmly believe we need to stop sacrificing (-1sp) freedoms for a little security and keep our own eye out.  But that's just me.
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« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2007, 01:41:13 PM »

Brendhan:

I sleep good at night after having to show 3 Federal ID cards every day. I think any American would at least agree that a Federal ID Card would SIMPLE THINGS UP - one data base, cross referenced with tens of thousands of others.

I'd love to know specifically which RIGHT we give up by being required to have a Federal ID - sure would ween out all the ILLEGALS quick enough.

I'm for DNA swabbing all new Americans at birth - place the sample in a database and the child will know that ANY CRIME he/she commits ALWAYS leaves some evidence. Eventually MUCH CRIME would be greatly reduced OR we'll need to build a million more prisons - ugh.
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« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2007, 02:12:27 PM »

beemaster-john
they COULD get all the illegals, they COULD get a much higher number of criminals behind the bars they COULD a million other stuff do much better. but face it, we all know it they simly don't WANT to.
you know...white collar crime and stuff, all that is behind the "illegal fasade" so no one sees it, or should i say doesn't have the time to see it/mustn't see it.
politicians steal millions and millions and don't get even suspected, while i might nick a candy-bar and go to jail.

no matter how you turn it, laws of nature still serve the humanity, it sucks not to be the alpha male.
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2007, 02:51:15 PM »

years back, the supremes created a new right.  that was the right to privacy.  i would guess that the argument against dna data banks would fall under that "right". 

the federal ID card would be another way of taking rights and more importantly, responsibilities, from states.  since we have already done that with things like the social security program, that might not be a big deal to some.

fact is, if the laws on the books were enforced, we would not have a problems with illegals. rather than creating new id's and laws, why don't we first try enforcing what is on the books.  if we can't do that, what makes us think we can enforce new laws?

+ i personally have a problem with the whole "show me your papers" thing.  and....the Gatica thing.

BM, you chose the work you do and your work requires a certain level of security.  you don't mind your id's, but you don't mind because it's your choice.  same as when i went into the military and knew that my constitutional rights were suspended for the time that i served.  a drivers license, or state id is a choice.  i guess a SSN is not any longer.  the idea of forcing people into data bases when no crime is committed ought to upset anyone who's even superficially studied history....both our own and others.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2007, 11:34:47 AM »

Brendhan:

I sleep good at night after having to show 3 Federal ID cards every day. I think any American would at least agree that a Federal ID Card would SIMPLE THINGS UP - one data base, cross referenced with tens of thousands of others.

I'd love to know specifically which RIGHT we give up by being required to have a Federal ID - sure would ween out all the ILLEGALS quick enough.

I'm for DNA swabbing all new Americans at birth - place the sample in a database and the child will know that ANY CRIME he/she commits ALWAYS leaves some evidence. Eventually MUCH CRIME would be greatly reduced OR we'll need to build a million more prisons - ugh.


If you honestly believe that a federal ID will stop illegals that's great. I don't believe. I alos think it is ripe for abuse. Because the problem is once you end up on a government blacklist it is almost impossible to get off. And in the meantime you life is turned upside down.

And despite that I know that it is probably going to happen anyway. You can continue to sleep tight. Because a federal ID program isn't going to stop the criminals.

As far as the DNA database. I am opposed to that. Not because criminals leave behind DNA evidence. They don't always. But because the names and information would end up being used by other companies. Like insurance companies and potential employeers. How about you are denied a job because a DNA database said you had a chance of having a heart attack?



Kathyp mentioned a driver's license or a state id is a choice. Not in Florida. By age 18 you must have a state ID either a driver's license or a state of Florida ID card. IF a cop asks you for one and you do not have it. You can be arrestes in Florida for simply not having one. Where was my choice. I understand that driving is recognized by the state of Florida as a priviliege and not a right(it is on the first page of the driver's handbook) and that is fine but when there is far from adequete public transportation it can make it difficult for people to support themselves. If you want to ride a bike to work that is fine. If you are on thr highway you have the same rights as a car without needing a driver's license. However if a cop pulls you over you better at least have a state ID.

mici
I no more believe they could get all the illeagles than I believe I will get my passport anytime soon. The government is great for passing laws and then not funding them. They pass all these laws after 9/11 and basically if you now go to the bahamas or Canada you are suppose to have a passport now. Well here is the problem they made all the buisness travelers require one who didn't need one before. The passport office backlog is overwhelming I am on month 4 of waiting for my passport. It is so bad the governement has temporially lifted the requirements for the need of a passport. My congressman's office has a special assistant to deal with all of the complaints he is receing on passport claims.

If the government wants to capture all the illeagles where are they going to get the manpower and what are they going to house them in as they wait for deportation hearings.



As I stated earlier I the national ID program will probably happen. The DNA database will probably happen also. And there will still be crime and illeagle immigrants.

You may be surprised to hear this but the president actually had a a halfway decent idea. The temporary workers program. The problem was the way it was laid out was ridiculous. Not that anyone asked, but here is my idea on it. Allow immigrants to work in this country on 6 month worker visa that cost $50 every six months. The money must go directly into the budget of the INS department. It can be used to hire extra personal to help keep track of the workers. The visa's can be renewed every 6 months. Now here is where I want to go with this. The workers than fall under the worker protections. They get paid minimum wage and can have workers compensation and sue employeers who mistreat them without having to leap through the hoops they have to do now.

Employeers that hire illeagles would then be at risk of having their buisness shut down and assests siezed if they employeed illeagles.

Now I am not so foolish as to believe that all 11 million illegle immigrants would register but if 5 million do register that is an extra 250 million every six months into the budget of the INS. Half a billion a year.

The national ID program is the equal to papers please as mentioned earlier. But the way to do away with the rights of the citizens is to cater to the fears of the public.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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kathyp
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« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2007, 01:45:07 PM »

i had to go outside to see if the sky was falling or pigs were flying.  understudy just made two posts that i agree with.

mark the day kids, the next time this happens, hell will have frozen over!!!   evil   grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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