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Author Topic: Remember conspiracy theorist  (Read 5308 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: June 26, 2007, 04:14:28 PM »

Those conspiracy nut jobs from the mid-nineties? One of the things they warned about was this little chip that the government was going to have embedded under everyones skin. And how it was always denied that the technology even existed. Then shortly after all the militia folks vanished and the conspiracy theorist shut up, there came this announcement that these chips had been tested for a couple of years and were now available for pets. Just pop one of these suckers into your pet and you will be able to find it when it runs off. Then I think it was mentioned recently that these things should be place into convicts, probably sexual predators, so they could be tracked.

And now this;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070626/ts_alt_afp/ushealthsciencetechnology_070626023529;_ylt=AtNwErDR99Buc6.Jei1QS9_MWM0F

Just wonder how long it will be before it is mandatory for everyone to have one.

Perhaps conspiracy theorist are right.     
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2007, 04:37:01 PM »

thanks for the advertising  smiley.  i own some chunks of stock in the company that is the leader in this technology. i figure i might as well make a buck off others stupidity.

other countries are already using these as id for govt workers, and they are the new thing for the beautiful people who don't want to carry id etc. as they club.

no money made on the stock yet, but it's only a matter of time.

watch what they do to the military.  these things are always done to the military first.  a captive group of subjects.......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2007, 06:48:42 PM »

We already do ID chips on dogs and cats.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2007, 09:12:13 PM »

Hey jerry, when are we sighning up? evil
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2007, 10:59:08 PM »

You want to be lojacked?
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2007, 03:53:02 AM »

thanks for the advertising  smiley.  i own some chunks of stock in the company that is the leader in this technology. i figure i might as well make a buck off others stupidity.

Absolutely priceless!

Remember the russian with the transistor found in his head? They never explained that one.
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2007, 09:46:44 AM »

Jerrymac, in my experience, while it seems most conspiracy theories prove to be nothing, I think that probably every "one in a million" can sometimes have some truth behind it.  I can still recall a comment on a news article about CCD that it was caused by "...black-helicopters of the US military dumping pesticides to kill the 'Killer Bee'..."  Although there could be evidence of a  trend that may lead to people being embeded with these chips, that doesn't give any reason to believe that countless other "theories" have any truth to them what so ever.

I for one doubt we'll see these chips anytime soon.  I mean, they may be used in the military or medical fields for identification purposes as, they're certainly much better than any dog-tag, but, I doubt we'll ever see these incorporated into the general population.  I just don't think many people would willingly do that, though, there are those that said people would grow bored of sitting infront of a TV...
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2007, 10:38:29 AM »

http://www.salsastories.com/stories_g-h/get_chipped.htm

http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5111637.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163983,00.html

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5913644.html

i picked these articles in part because of the dates.  chances are, you are already using the technology and it comes from the same company that does human chips.  if you travel a lot....wouldn't it be soooo much easier to be chipped yourself rather than have to keep track of that darn passport?  safer to!  who could mess with it? 

when you want to do a BIG thing to people and you know they might resist, you start with little things.  with technology, you get them used to the idea.  they you introduce them to the technology in little, non-threatening ways.  by the time you get to the BIG thing, people don't thing anything of it.

look at all the GPS tech that we have in our phones, cars, etc.  if you had asked people 20 years ago, "would you consider it ok to be tracked 24 hours a day?" they would have said He** no!  yet we drive our Onstar cars with the idea that they make us safer, and we use our GPS embedded phones so that 911 can find us. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2007, 04:03:01 PM »

Nope! No cell phones or GPS or onstar for me. Sometimes I'm even tempted to throw out this computer. But I don't keep any personal info on it.
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2007, 04:48:16 PM »

Nope! No cell phones or GPS or onstar for me. Sometimes I'm even tempted to throw out this computer. But I don't keep any personal info on it.
See I just keep lots of lies on my personal computer. Right the government thinks I am a 69 year old woman blind in one eye, smokes two packs a day, with fashion taste for Georgia Tent and Awnning.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2007, 08:42:21 AM »

I am getting the feeling that some of you don't think this would be a problem. Just like red light cameras, speed cameras, and other ways the government of spying on you. Illegal wire taps. Of course there is that old worn out saying, "If you ain't breaking the law, so what." got nothing to worry about. But let us remember new laws are made on a daily bases. Someone who is not a criminal today will be one tomorrow. Who ever thought a person could lose their house and go to jail because they don't cut their grass.  rolleyes

A lot of the little things are in and of themselves harmless. Gun registrations, license, and permits to carry. All good things. Makes it easier to catch the bad guys or the ones that go nuts. No conspiracy behind it at all. Unless the government decides we don't need guns. Then it sure makes it easy to round up all the guns. Refuse to give up the gun and they can track you when you run. Yesterday you were a law abiding citizen, and today a criminal because they passed the law to strip you of your constitutional right to keep and bear arms. The second amendment puts the teeth into the bill of rights. Take it away and they can easily get rid of the rest of them.... And you couldn't say a thing about it because it will be against the law.

No these things may not happen in our lifetime, but they will happen. I say that with out any doubt. They will happen. It is a slow process just like evolution, but it will get there. The easiest way to take away a persons rights and freedoms is to convince him/her that it is for their safety and well being. We can place these chips into you new born babies just in case they ever get kidnapped. Yes kidnapping is on the rise. You really should protect your child from this terrible thing.

Then later..... This has been working so well it is now mandatory to "chip" you kid. There you have it, a few generations down the road and the kids are "Chipped". (Remember, that is mine. "Chipped". "Have you chipped your kid today?" "How long has it been since you popped in a cold all seeing chip under you skin...... Well that's too long.")

We must resist these things. Not for us, but for our great great grand children. So they can live free and be happy also.

I'm going already. See you in about a week  Kiss
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2007, 10:10:38 AM »

it is interesting that you buy the "slippery slope" argument and conspiracy argument when it comes to the government, but not when it comes to other groups with society changing agendas.  or, maybe you agree with their goals.....

at any rate...i agree with you on this.

have a good trip.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2007, 10:36:32 PM »

I think there are a few people running around experimenting with embedded chips.They use them to transmit atm info ,tracking(Just to see if it's feasible),and credit transactions if I remember correctly.
Apis,many people are already willing to be tracked by their cell phones. I rarely carry mine!
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2007, 02:09:41 AM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070721/ap_on_hi_te/chipping_america;_ylt=AmAxdCYVAAbHj1hxoEudlyrMWM0F



By TODD LEWAN, AP National Writer Sat Jul 21, 12:19 PM ET

CityWatcher.com, a provider of surveillance equipment, attracted little notice itself β€” until a year ago, when two of its employees had glass-encapsulated microchips with miniature antennas embedded in their forearms.
ADVERTISEMENT

The "chipping" of two workers with RFIDs β€” radio frequency identification tags as long as two grains of rice, as thick as a toothpick β€” was merely a way of restricting access to vaults that held sensitive data and images for police departments, a layer of security beyond key cards and clearance codes, the company said.

"To protect high-end secure data, you use more sophisticated techniques," Sean Darks, chief executive of the Cincinnati-based company, said. He compared chip implants to retina scans or fingerprinting. "There's a reader outside the door; you walk up to the reader, put your arm under it, and it opens the door."

Innocuous? Maybe.

But the news that Americans had, for the first time, been injected with electronic identifiers to perform their jobs fired up a debate over the proliferation of ever-more-precise tracking technologies and their ability to erode privacy in the digital age.

To some, the microchip was a wondrous invention β€” a high-tech helper that could increase security at nuclear plants and military bases, help authorities identify wandering Alzheimer's patients, allow consumers to buy their groceries, literally, with the wave of a chipped hand.

To others, the notion of tagging people was Orwellian, a departure from centuries of history and tradition in which people had the right to go and do as they pleased, without being tracked, unless they were harming someone else.

Chipping, these critics said, might start with Alzheimer's patients or Army Rangers, but would eventually be suggested for convicts, then parolees, then sex offenders, then illegal aliens β€” until one day, a majority of Americans, falling into one category or another, would find themselves electronically tagged.

The concept of making all things traceable isn't alien to Americans. Thirty years ago, the first electronic tags were fixed to the ears of cattle, to permit ranchers to track a herd's reproductive and eating habits. In the 1990s, millions of chips were implanted in livestock, fish, dogs, cats, even racehorses.

Microchips are now fixed to car windshields as toll-paying devices, on "contactless" payment cards (Chase's "Blink," or MasterCard's "PayPass"). They're embedded in Michelin tires, library books, passports, work uniforms, luggage, and, unbeknownst to many consumers, on a host of individual items, from Hewlett Packard printers to Sanyo TVs, at Wal-Mart and Best Buy.

But CityWatcher.com employees weren't appliances or pets: They were people made scannable.

"It was scary that a government contractor that specialized in putting surveillance cameras on city streets was the first to incorporate this technology in the workplace," says Liz McIntyre, co-author of "Spychips: How Major Corporations and Government Plan to Track Your Every Move with RFID."

Darks, the CityWatcher.com executive, dismissed his critics, noting that he and his employees had volunteered to be chip-injected. Any suggestion that a sinister, Big-Brother-like campaign was afoot, he said, was hogwash.

"You would think that we were going around putting chips in people by force," he told a reporter, "and that's not the case at all."

Yet, within days of the company's announcement, civil libertarians and Christian conservatives joined to excoriate the microchip's implantation in people.

RFID, they warned, would soon enable the government to "frisk" citizens electronically β€” an invisible, undetectable search performed by readers posted at "hotspots" along roadsides and in pedestrian areas. It might even be used to squeal on employees while they worked; time spent at the water cooler, in the bathroom, in a designated smoking area could one day be broadcast, recorded and compiled in off-limits, company databases.

"Ultimately," says Katherine Albrecht, a privacy advocate who specializes in consumer education and RFID technology, "the fear is that the government or your employer might someday say, 'Take a chip or starve.'"

Some Christian critics saw the implants as the fulfillment of a biblical prophecy that describes an age of evil in which humans are forced to take the "Mark of the Beast" on their bodies, to buy or sell anything.

Gary Wohlscheid, president of These Last Days Ministries, a Roman Catholic group in Lowell, Mich., put together a Web site that linked the implantable microchips to the apocalyptic prophecy in the book of Revelation.

"The Bible tells us that God's wrath will come to those who take the Mark of the Beast," he says. Those who refuse to accept the Satanic chip "will be saved," Wohlscheid offers in a comforting tone.

___

In post-9/11 America, electronic surveillance comes in myriad forms: in a gas station's video camera; in a cell phone tucked inside a teen's back pocket; in a radio tag attached to a supermarket shopping cart; in a Porsche automobile equipped with a LoJack anti-theft device.

"We're really on the verge of creating a surveillance society in America, where every movement, every action β€” some would even claim, our very thoughts β€” will be tracked, monitored, recorded and correlated," says Barry Steinhardt, director of the Technology and Liberty Program at the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington, D.C.

RFID, in Steinhardt's opinion, "could play a pivotal role in creating that surveillance society."

In design, the tag is simple: A medical-grade glass capsule holds a silicon computer chip, a copper antenna and a "capacitor" that transmits data stored on the chip when prompted by an electromagnetic reader.

Implantations are quick, relatively simple procedures. After a local anesthetic is administered, a large-gauge hypodermic needle injects the chip under the skin on the back of the arm, midway between the elbow and the shoulder.

"It feels just like getting a vaccine β€” a bit of pressure, no specific pain," says John Halamka, an emergency physician at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

He got chipped two years ago, "so that if I was ever in an accident, and arrived unconscious or incoherent at an emergency ward, doctors could identify me and access my medical history quickly." (A chipped person's medical profile can be continuously updated, since the information is stored on a database accessed via the Internet.)

Halamka thinks of his microchip as another technology with practical value, like his BlackBerry. But it's also clear, he says, that there are consequences to having an implanted identifier.

"My friends have commented to me that I'm 'marked' for life, that I've lost my anonymity. And to be honest, I think they're right."

Indeed, as microchip proponents and detractors readily agree, Americans' mistrust of microchips and technologies like RFID runs deep. Many wonder:

Do the current chips have global positioning transceivers that would allow the government to pinpoint a person's exact location, 24-7? (No; the technology doesn't yet exist.)

But could a tech-savvy stalker rig scanners to video cameras and film somebody each time they entered or left the house? (Quite easily, though not cheaply. Currently, readers cost $300 and up.)

How about thieves? Could they make their own readers, aim them at unsuspecting individuals, and surreptitiously pluck people's IDs out of their arms? (Yes. There's even a name for it β€” "spoofing.")

What's the average lifespan of a microchip? (About 10-15 years.) What if you get tired of it before then β€” can it be easily, painlessly removed? (Short answer: No.)

Presently, Steinhardt and other privacy advocates view the tagging of identity documents β€” passports, drivers licenses and the like β€” as a more pressing threat to Americans' privacy than the chipping of people. Equipping hospitals, doctors' offices, police stations and government agencies with readers will be costly, training staff will take time, and, he says, "people are going to be too squeamish about having an RFID chip inserted into their arms, or wherever."

But that wasn't the case in March 2004, when the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona, Spain β€” a nightclub catering to the body-aware, under-25 crowd β€” began holding "Implant Nights."

In a white lab coat, with hypodermic in latex-gloved hand, a company chipper wandered through the throng of the clubbers and clubbettes, anesthetizing the arms of consenting party goers, then injecting them with microchips.

The payoff?

Injectees would thereafter be able to breeze past bouncers and entrance lines, magically open doors to VIP lounges, and pay for drinks without cash or credit cards. The ID number on the VIP chip was linked to the user's financial accounts and stored in the club's computers.

After being chipped himself, club owner Conrad K. Chase declared that chip implants were hardly a big deal to his patrons, since "almost everybody has piercings, tattoos or silicone."

VIP chipping soon spread to the Baja Beach Club in Rotterdam, Holland, the Bar Soba in Edinburgh, Scotland, and the Amika nightclub in Miami Beach, Fla.

That same year, Mexico's attorney general, Rafael Macedo, made an announcement that thrilled chip proponents and chilled privacy advocates: He and 18 members of his staff had been microchipped as a way to limit access to a sensitive records room, whose door unlocked when a "portal reader" scanned the chips.

But did this make Mexican security airtight?

Hardly, says Jonathan Westhues, an independent security researcher in Cambridge, Mass. He concocted an "emulator," a hand-held device that cloned the implantable microchip electronically. With a team of computer-security experts, he demonstrated β€” on television β€” how easy it was to snag data off a chip.

Explains Adam Stubblefield, a Johns Hopkins researcher who joined the team: "You pass within a foot of a chipped person, copy the chip's code, then with a push of the button, replay the same ID number to any reader. You essentially assume the person's identity."

The company that makes implantable microchips for humans, VeriChip Corp., of Delray Beach, Fla., concedes the point β€” even as it markets its radio tag and its portal scanner as imperatives for high-security buildings, such as nuclear power plants.

"To grab information from radio frequency products with a scanning device is not hard to do," Scott Silverman, the company's chief executive, says. However, "the chip itself only contains a unique, 16-digit identification number. The relevant information is stored on a database."

Even so, he insists, it's harder to clone a VeriChip than it would be to steal someone's key card and use it to enter secure areas.

VeriChip Corp., whose parent company has been selling radio tags for animals for more than a decade, has sold 7,000 microchips worldwide, of which about 2,000 have been implanted in humans. More than one-tenth of those have been in the U.S., generating "nominal revenues," the company acknowledged in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing in February.

Although in five years VeriChip Corp. has yet to turn a profit, it has been investing heavily β€” up to $2 million a quarter β€” to create new markets.

The company's present push: tagging of "high-risk" patients β€” diabetics and people with heart conditions or Alzheimer's disease.

In an emergency, hospital staff could wave a reader over a patient's arm, get an ID number, and then, via the Internet, enter a company database and pull up the person's identity and medical history.

To doctors, a "starter kit" β€” complete with 10 hypodermic syringes, 10 VeriChips and a reader β€” costs $1,400. To patients, a microchip implant means a $200, out-of-pocket expense to their physician. Presently, chip implants aren't covered by insurance companies, Medicare or Medicaid.

For almost two years, the company has been offering hospitals free scanners, but acceptance has been limited. According to the company's most recent SEC quarterly filing, 515 hospitals have pledged to take part in the VeriMed network, yet only 100 have actually been equipped and trained to use the system.

Some wonder why they should abandon noninvasive tags such as MedicAlert, a low-tech bracelet that warns paramedics if patients have serious allergies or a chronic medical condition.

"Having these things under your skin instead of in your back pocket β€” it's just not clear to me why it's worth the inconvenience," says Westhues.

Silverman responds that an implanted chip is "guaranteed to be with you. It's not a medical arm bracelet that you can take off if you don't like the way it looks..."

In fact, microchips can be removed from the body β€” but it's not like removing a splinter.

The capsules can migrate around the body or bury themselves deep in the arm. When that happens, a sensor X-ray and monitors are needed to locate the chip, and a plastic surgeon must cut away scar tissue that forms around the chip.

The relative permanence is a big reason why Marc Rotenberg, of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, is suspicious about the motives of the company, which charges an annual fee to keep clients' records.

The company charges $20 a year for customers to keep a "one-pager" on its database β€” a record of blood type, allergies, medications, driver's license data and living-will directives. For $80 a year, it will keep an individual's full medical history.

___

In recent times, there have been rumors on Wall Street, and elsewhere, of the potential uses for RFID in humans: the chipping of U.S. soldiers, of inmates, or of migrant workers, to name a few.

To date, none of this has happened.

But a large-scale chipping plan that was proposed illustrates the stakes, pro and con.

In mid-May, a protest outside the Alzheimer's Community Care Center in West Palm Beach, Fla., drew attention to a two-year study in which 200 Alzheimer's patients, along with their caregivers, were to receive chip implants. Parents, children and elderly people decried the plan, with signs and placards.

"Chipping People Is Wrong" and "People Are Not Pets," the signs read. And: "Stop VeriChip."

Ironically, the media attention sent VeriChip's stock soaring 27 percent in one day.

"VeriChip offers technology that is absolutely bursting with potential," wrote blogger Gary E. Sattler, of the AOL site Bloggingstocks, even as he recognized privacy concerns.

Albrecht, the RFID critic who organized the demonstration, raises similar concerns on her AntiChips.com Web site.

"Is it appropriate to use the most vulnerable members of society for invasive medical research? Should the company be allowed to implant microchips into people whose mental impairments mean they cannot give fully informed consent?"

Mary Barnes, the care center's chief executive, counters that both the patients and their legal guardians must consent to the implants before receiving them. And the chips, she says, could be invaluable in identifying lost patients β€” for instance, if a hurricane strikes Florida.

That, of course, assumes that the Internet would be accessible in a killer storm. VeriChip Corp. acknowledged in an SEC filing that its "database may not function properly" in such circumstances.

As the polemic heats up, legislators are increasingly being drawn into the fray. Two states, Wisconsin and North Dakota, recently passed laws prohibiting the forced implantation of microchips in humans. Others β€” Ohio, Oklahoma, Colorado and Florida β€” are studying similar legislation.

In May, Oklahoma legislators were debating a bill that would have authorized microchip implants in people imprisoned for violent crimes. Many felt it would be a good way to monitor felons once released from prison.

But other lawmakers raised concerns. Rep. John Wright worried, "Apparently, we're going to permanently put the mark on these people."

Rep. Ed Cannaday found the forced microchipping of inmates "invasive ... We are going down that slippery slope."

In the end, lawmakers sent the bill back to committee for more work.
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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2007, 11:23:35 AM »

i saw that yesterday.  maybe someday i'll make a fortune on that stock.   evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2007, 03:24:03 AM »

So there are a few more illegle wire taps, the patriot act still continues to be abused. And I cannot report the TSA recent actions against me because I will end up on the no fly list.

By the way the FBI can listen to you on your cell phone even if your not talking on it.

There were suppose to be checks and balances in place. However the current administration circumvents FISA and thinks the constitution is "just a goddamn piece of paper."

So as your lojack helps if your car is stolen, the government can use it to track you. This is where those who say well if you aren't doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about. Well the current executive branch is has no problem with accidentally placing you on a black list, not telling you about it, and not telling why you are on it, or how you can get off it.

Instead of a national ID card how about a national ID chip? As I stated before we already do this to cats and dogs. It is being tested on humans. So what is the slippery slope, wearing a medical alert bracelet to let someone know you are allergic to penicillan? Most people would not view that as infringement on their rights. How about having to publically list yourself as a sexual offender? Because your were dating a 16 year old when your were 18. You may not have any sexual contact with her.

How about I wear a shirt to the airport that says "I am not a terrorist." Then end up being arrested as a subversive. How about I participate in an anti war rally and the person who drove me there who has nothing to do with the event ends up under investigation by the FBI.

How about the gentleman who had TB and went on the plane flight? How about the guys who did the publicity stunt for Cartoon network that shut down the highways in Boston?

How about Massachusetts voting to ban internet hunting?

Your printer everytime you print something places a secret set of dots not visible to the human eye on each page. The dots list the make model and serial number of your printer.

It's isn't whether or not you believe being chipped or reciving a national ID will actually stop terrorism. It is how much control do you want to give your government and how much oversight should come with it. My Florida drivers license has to be shown when I am asked for ID by police. They aren't suppose to be able to arrest me in Georgia for having a Florida driver's license. My car has a plate which gives the car an ID which is associated with the VIN number on the car. Of which each car has a vin number hiddden on their car the location of which is only known by the FBI in addition to the one you know about on your dash. What about my social security number? No matter what state I work in that is the number my employer uses. The number orginally was only to be used by the social security program. It hasn't been that way since 1943. How about your passport? Your new passport carries an active RFID tag in it. The only way to turn it off is by smashing it with a hammer. Doing so can get you in trouble with the law. But it does give the government the ablity to track you. But the passport is the only ID you can use to get back into the US with the new immigration laws. So you must have a social security number if you want a legit paycheck, a driver's license number if you want to drive legally and a passport (which has a number) if you want to travel outside the US. However you passport is now also one of the required pieces of ID to fill out the I-9 employment form. You also have a voters registration card so you can vote. Which you must present along with your driver's license in Florida at the polling station if you want to vote. Not that in Florida your vote counts. If you want to own a gun you must register and receive a number for that. Don't forget you have a phone number and probably cell phone number. You have a checking account number which you used your driver's license and social security number to open. If you win more than $600 gambling they will need ID and a social security number against which to asses the taxes.

You have a ton of different account numbers, from your checking to your gym membership. All of which are a form of ID. You may even have an employee ID number at your job. If you served in the armed services before I believe 1950 (not sure of the exact year) you has a different ID number (they now use your SS number from my understanding).

The question is what constitues a concern for rampant abuse. By our government or other entity. Identity theft is a much more rampant crime now that your credit card numbers are so much more accesible. Which can lead someone to find you SS number. That and your date of birth which can be found pretty easily in many cases means someone can really mess with your credit rating. None of which will matter when the government arrests you and siezes your assests because the person who stole you identity is laundering drug money. And the best part is that even after they sieze and are found to be wrong they don't have to give them back.

But are there any benefits to outweight the cost of possible abuse. What will a national ID do? What will it do if it is an embedded microchip? Do they really believe that this will stop ID theft?

Look I don't mind the my cat and dog receiving their chips. I also use them to keep access to the animals medical records. And if the animal ever got lost it gives me a very small amount of hope that it may be returned to me. Then I watched Dealing Dogs on HBO and thought I may never see my dog again. While Michael Vick was arrested for the dog fight ring. About three years ago the cops busted people in the neighborhood for training dogs to fight. They weren't having the fights at their home. But they were training dogs to fight. These are the people who steal your dog. The ID chip really doesn't stop them.

The thing is we do so much of this stuff already and it is accepted in the American society that most people don't think twice about it. The removal of their rights are not what is mentioned in this slippery slope discussed earlier. The idea of protecting you from some threat. However everyone has to participate for the "protection" to be effective. Well what is going to protect us from government abuse without any checks and balances?


Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2007, 11:26:40 AM »

liberals always amuse me with their lack of knowledge of history, the constitution, law, and current events.  i do feel your pain about TSA!  after all.....it is all about how we feel.

thank god FDR didn't have to deal with this congress, the ny times, and all these FEELINGS.....we'd either be speaking german, or drinking green tea.......he didn't deal with the constitution either......imagin that!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2007, 03:14:42 PM »

liberals always amuse me with their lack of knowledge of history, the constitution, law, and current events.  i do feel your pain about TSA!  after all.....it is all about how we feel.

thank god FDR didn't have to deal with this congress, the ny times, and all these FEELINGS.....we'd either be speaking german, or drinking green tea.......he didn't deal with the constitution either......imagin that!

I like you.
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2007, 03:41:34 PM »

Pass that BARF BAG over to me Kathy, It is old retoric, they throw OUR WORDS at us when it's time to push them in our face, but the NEW LIBERAL DEMOCRAT in this country according to polls says, White American MAles NEED NOT APPLY, they have given up on the YOUNG MEN of this country in their political ads. All the early dollars are going to minority issues and other pukey fluff they spew - uck.  Lips Sealed

Let the Libs have it, Bush 2 is worse than Clinton on his worse days - speaking for myself, Clinton as the MAN we know today GRE on me and I liked him starting year 3 or 4. Gore has lectured a lot and I have heard and seen many, they are funny, entertaining and low in finger pointing. I like that in a man.

I hear rumors of Gore/Obama by SUPER TUESDAY - you hear it hear FIRST at Beemaster.com

I am happy to see more Liberals have moved CENTER to comply with a somewhat compassionate position and I wish the Conservative Party wasn't moving so far RIGHT - Christian Right is NOT where I want my leadership. I want LAWS to govern my President's decisions, NOT to use his "Faith" make the decissions for us. I want a Strong Man who can win this God Aweful War (and I say MAn, because the thought of even 4 years of Hilary makes me want to upchuck. Remember to look closely when she GRINS A HUGE GRIN - she turns into the GRINCH WHO STOLE CHRISTMAS for about 4 seconds - look close now!!

So hopefully MEN against men, not "race against color" WHICH I'm sure will play a factor unlike any previous elections. I hope this doesn't come down to either a sexist or racist election, especially when it comes to the TV ADs.

More soon.
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2007, 03:52:54 PM »

liberals always amuse me with their lack of knowledge of history, the constitution, law, and current events. 

you mean all liberals are uneducated? i am a liberal. do i amuse you? do you want to give me a test to see what i know?

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