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Author Topic: My teeth fell out...  (Read 6057 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: June 11, 2007, 12:14:20 PM »

And I don't have dentures.

This article was interesting enough I guess to read, and then I got the the last part of it. 

shocked shocked shocked Well I thought the stuff was bad for you and they inject it into the kids  shocked shocked shocked

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070611/ap_on_he_me/autism_vaccines;_ylt=AiUhmSWeXTi2q747CAsltxis0NUE
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 04:07:30 PM »

the question is about thimerosal.  thimerosal has been used in vaccines for around 70 years.

studies have been done.  no study that i know of has make the connection.  we do know the results of not vaccinating children.

IF there is a rise in autism, it may be that we should be looking at other things in addition to vaccines.  some of the questions to ask are not very PC.  for instance, how many of these women went back to work immediately after giving birth.  how many are older moms.  how many of these kids spend more time in daycare or preschool than in the care of their parents. how many of the kids were IVF.  how many of the parents were vegetarians.  how many kids labeled with some disorder simply need to have their backsides paddled?

there are a lot of things that go into the development of a child.  it's nice to slap a label of ADD or autistic on a child.  then we can look for some external thing to blame. 

ya, i'm on a rant again.  my 5 year old niece was just diagnosed as ADHD. all of the above apply to her parents except the IVF.  she is a beautiful, bright and willful child who has never heard the word NO.  now her parents wonder why she's out of control, and want her on meds.
i have a nephew that's been labeled autistic.  his mother is a wack job.  no one ever looked at the family dynamics to see why he acts the way he does.  it's easier to label the child.  it also takes pressure off the parents.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 04:35:00 PM »

My thoughts were on the mercury they inject into kids. And I thought the stuff was really bad. Guess I was miss informed.
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 04:39:19 PM »

the mercury is in the thimerosal.  thimerosal is the preservative that has been used for years.  they are phasing it out.  don't know how many immunizations still use it.  i know it's in some of the animal shots i use.

and my rant was not directed at you.  just at these folks who are out to make a buck off the suffering of others, and the parents who are looking for someone to blame for what goes wrong.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2007, 05:53:49 PM »

Kathy, do you think ADHD is a real problem?  Every case I have come across/seen appears to be from a lack of discipline and/or other 'parental' issues. 
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reinbeau
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2007, 06:07:52 PM »

ADHD is only a problem in that we don't fit society's version of normal.  I am ADHD, aa 51 year old female hyperactive type.  What does that mean?  It means I have a shorter attention span than some, but I multitask well, I figit alot, but I'm thin and fit because I exercise, social issues were difficult when I was younger, but maturity tends to fix that.  It'll fix it provided you aren't labeled as 'different' and medicated instead of being taught (or just learning by trial an error) coping skills.  There's nothing 'disordered' about ADHD, it's a difference.  Something the school system doesn't like to deal with.  Nor do busy, self-involved parents.  rolleyes  I come from an ADHD family, my mother has always called us 'hornet-blossoms'  cheesy  There's four of us, only my sister isn't hyper/ADHD like the rest of us.

My diagnosis came after my youngest son was diagnosed.  To suit the school.  And it turned out the apple didn't fall far from the tree!  Our story is long and involved, but suffice it to say we did try Ritalin for him just in school so he could learn (he has a very high IQ, but couldn't learn to read the way they were teaching him.  He's fine now).  I actually tried the Ritalin and was not happy with it.  I was 38 at the time, and couldn't stand the quiet in my head.  He stopped taking it when he wanted to, around 13 years old or so - I left it totally up to him.

?As for the thimerosal and vaccinations causing autism, I think it's more the timing of the vaccinations.  We hammer the immune system of our little babies with way too much way too soon.  I doubt they'll ever admit anything like that (sorta like the chemical companies pussyfooting around the CCD issue).  For what it's worth, and I know it's hardly definitive, but I've seen the difference vaccination makes.  I have friends who had a lively, loving 15 month old son one day - they took him in for scheduled vaccinations, and, I kid you not, the next time I saw that child I couldn't believe the difference.  His eyes were dead.  He avoided all contact.  He lost his newly acquired verbal abilities.  It was incredibly sad.  The poor child is gone now, he drowned in the family swimming pool (he was a great swimmer, actually he was very athletic, he loved to play soccer, just don't try to communicate directly with him).  He had a seizure in the pool and died  Cry

KathyP isn't the only one who can rant.  evil
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2007, 06:21:18 PM »

i think it is.  it seems to run in some families.  i have seen kids make a real about face when they are treated.  however, i think now it is a convenient diagnosis for many parents, teachers, and doctors.  

i think autism is real also.  sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a child with behavior disorders, personality disorders, and just plain brattyness.

can't help but wonder if this tendency toward having children at an older age isn't a contributing factor.  my grandchildren flat wear me out.  there are women having children for the first time, at my age.  i can't imagine doing what i did with my kids when i was in my 20's, now.  maybe medicated kids are a result of frazzled grandparent age parents.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2007, 08:54:09 PM »

Back when I was a kid it was called Hyperactivity. Basically I wouldn't focus in class and would go off and do my own thing. This would of course irritate my teacher considerably.
The teacher recommended that I be examined. My doctor perscribed a drug known as Dexadrine. Basically it is speed. Speed in a active child has a reverse effect. And it can only be given to a child up until puberty. Because after that it has the normal effect. So basically it is a temporary drug. I am to this day grateful I was not given Ritalin. I still believe Ritalin is a nasty horrible drug that is perscribed way to much. I am sure it helps some people but they are a very small minority.

Something was done shortly after I was given Dexadrine. I was sent to a real psychologist.

Who did some extensive testing. My problem was I smart. Today they would say I wasn't being challenged enough. So the shrink and I would do a bunch of games that were designed to challenge me and also work on getting me to focus more. However the best thing that taught me to focus was a very intense karate course. The intense physical exertion would wear me out. That would cut down my energy levels. I still ended up taking the meds for another 4-5 years. But the karate course only lasted about a year until we moved to Puerto Rico. However some of the ideals stayed with me.

As I got older and discussed the issue with other kids of a similar diagnosis. I noticed a very similar thread. Smart kids and incompetent teachers. Now this isn't scientific but for a personal hypothoseis I am accepting of it. I watch some of the kids who were perscribed Ritalin. I still feel sad for them. It would literally take the light from their eyes. You could just see the life energy zapped in these kids.

So because nobody asked I am going to share with you my observations.:
1. ADHD is overdiagnoised.
2. Ritalin is over perscribed and nasty nasty nasty.
3. Most kids who are listed as ADHD are smart.
4. Most kids with ADHD are easily bored with the mindless rambling of adults.
5. If something interests a kid with ADHD you can't pry them away from it. And that is the trick.
6. It is the responsiblity of adults(parents and teachers) to stop trying to dumb their kids down. You are dealing with a smart energized person who does not like to be bored. You have to learn how to deal with that. Not the other way around.
7. ADHD(diagnoised) persons like experiences and hands on things. Get them with that then they will read the books. This is the opposite of most methods.

So basically instead of embracing smart kids we crush them and make them feel bad about themselves. We make them feel they are different in a bad way instead of in a good way. Being smart is tough enough. Being made to feel bad because you are smart is really bad.

Now the article was about autism which is not ADHD. Also the notion that the MMR vaccine is responsible for it.
http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/03/mark-geier-untrustworthy-autism.html
I think thimerosal has nothing to do with causing autism. Nor am I convinced the MMR combo is responsible for causing autism.

Autism and ADHD don't belong in the same group in my limited opinion. There is no "stimming" with ADHD. I realize that many group them together. Asperger's Syndrome and ADHD have been diagnoised together. However you can outgrow ADHD. You cannot outgrow Asperger's Syndrome. Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) works with autism not with ADHD. I am not convinced that autism has anything to do with parenting or neglectful teachers.

With that said. I do not have an answer or reason for the upswing in the cases of autism.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2007, 09:12:37 PM »

the only reason i put them in the same post is that i think both are over diagnosed.

i had a family member go astray for a bit and send her children to live with me.  this was 20 years ago and i had young kids of my own.

the youngest sent to me was a 5 year old girl.  she did not talk, did not make eye contact, did not like being messed with, threw a fit if you tried to get her to do anything other than sit on the floor rocking and sucking her fingers.  she was not autistic.  she was neglected and showed the signs of autism.  fortunately for her and for me, she had a wonderful teacher who worked with both of us and eventually we got her through her problems.

that teacher was one of the last of a kind.  i am not a fan of the public school system.  i know i'll offend someone here, but if i had young children now, i would never, never, put them in public school.  understudy has it right.  the goal of public school is to dumb down kids, and the goal of most teachers is to retire and get state benefits for life.  if a child is disabled, speaks a different language, or average, they are ok in public school.  if a child is bright and inquisitive, forget it.  they will not have their needs met.  as far a i can see, my tax dollars go to foster mediocrity.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
reinbeau
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2007, 09:46:38 PM »

Brendhan, you couldn't be more wrong about Ritalin.  It's not a zombie drug at all, it's fast acting and leaves your system very quickly.  It doesn't have to build up, and taken in clinical doses it isn't addictive whatsoever, more than can be said for dexadrine.  Since you have no experience with it, please don't spread rumors that it's'nasty, nasty, nasty, that just isn't true.

ADHD is something I've lived with and researched over the years.   

Quote
1. ADHD is overdiagnoised.
Actually some feel it's underdiagnosed
Quote
2. Ritalin is over perscribed and nasty nasty nasty.
Inflammatory and untrue.
Quote
3. Most kids who are listed as ADHD are smart.
Studies have shown many children diagnosed with ADHD are in the higher levels of intelligence, but it's not always true.
Quote
4. Most kids with ADHD are easily bored with the mindless rambling of adults.
Most adults with ADHD are bored with mindless ramblings, also.
Quote
5. If something interests a kid with ADHD you can't pry them away from it. And that is the trick.
It's called hyperfocus.  Unfortunately it isn't something easily invoked - or stopped!
Quote
6. It is the responsiblity of adults(parents and teachers) to stop trying to dumb their kids down. You are dealing with a smart energized person who does not like to be bored. You have to learn how to deal with that. Not the other way around.
Teachers don't have time to deal with anything out of the norm.  It's up to the parents to recognize the issues and make sure the child gets the proper education.  I spent months taking my boys to tutors for various issues, they went to a special private afterschool program to help them succeed in the classroom.
Quote
7. ADHD(diagnoised) persons like experiences and hands on things. Get them with that then they will read the books. This is the opposite of most method.
It depends on what catches their interest.  I've always loved books and learning, I had no issues in school (other than not staying in my seat quietly after I'd finished my work, I was bored!), however, my youngest had such a bad time with reading, etc. he absolutely hates books. 

ADHD is on the autistic curve, and that's not an opinion.  As far as 'bad parenting' goes, that's been disproven, it's not nurture, it's nature.  Now, if the parents are unable to cope with a different-minded child, then there can be issues. 

You can't 'outgrow' ADHD, you merely develop coping mechanisms.  You can't change brain function by 'outgrowing' it.  I'm still hyper, I still have attention issues, but I'm still a successful person, just one with many interests.  It's the only way I can live.

I hate the fact it's called a disorder.  It's a difference.  Find the book called Hunter in a Farmer's World by Thom Hartman, it has a good take on why some are ADHD and why many aren't, and to me it makes a lot of sense.  I am hyper aware of my surroundings, always noticing things, always on watch, the distraction part for me is I'm aware of so many things at once I lose track of what I'm supposed to focus on.  I could definitely be described as a hunter..

Driven to Distraction by Dr. Edward M. Hallowell has a forward in it written by a friend of mine.  Dr. Hallowell runs a highly acclaimed ADHD clinic here in Massachusetts.  He's a very successful doctor who has lived with ADHD his whole life.

I have been a participant in the newsgroup alt.support.attn-deficit for 17 years now and have conversed with both of the above gentlemen.   Both are successful, college educated ADHD'rs.   

One thing we do agree on is the hammering on these children to make them fit the norm, whether it's by handling them badly or medicating the hell out of them.  Believe me, you can be just as overmedicated on dexadrine as you can be on Ritalin, or Adderal, or any number of other meds they prescribed for ADHD.   I wish the school system could accommodate ADHD better, but I don't see that ever happening.

Here in Massachusetts it is illegal for the school or the teacher to 'diagnose', or even suggest the diagnosis.  That is mostly a good thing, but it can be a bad thing in a way.  If a parent is to totally unaware of issues with their child that they wouldn't even think of ADHD (or they don't want to believe their child 'suffers from ADHD) then the child can go quite awhile, or even forever, without getting any of the appropriate assistance he/she needs.  So they end up feeling their way along, as I did.  Some make it, some don't, and that's the shame.

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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2007, 09:56:35 PM »

Quote
As far as 'bad parenting' goes, that's been disproven, it's not nurture, it's nature.  Now, if the parents are unable to cope with a different-minded child, then there can be issues.

i don't disagree, but i think often ADHD is diagnosed because the parents don't parent, and the teacher can't.  everyone becomes frustrated by an out of control kid and ADHD is an easy scapegoat. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2007, 10:00:11 PM »

Quote
As far as 'bad parenting' goes, that's been disproven, it's not nurture, it's nature.  Now, if the parents are unable to cope with a different-minded child, then there can be issues.

i don't disagree, but i think often ADHD is diagnosed because the parents don't parent, and the teacher can't.  everyone becomes frustrated by an out of control kid and ADHD is an easy scapegoat. 
Unfortunately that is true.  Society today expects much of younger and younger children.  As far as parents not parenting, I can't argue with that, either.  It's sad that things have reached the point in this country that raising children is an afterthought, right after the jobs, houses, cars, etc. that so many feel are so important.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2007, 10:00:37 PM »

Kiathyp,
I didn't think you were jumping on me, I could tell where you were coming from. I agree with everything everyone has said about ADHD. (The ones putting it down that is)

reinbeau, Will no one has diagnosed me as having ADHD I just imagine I have it. I had to force myself to read through most of these rants, but I had to stay with it because it is a subject that has been in my life. I know about the noise in the head, mine never shuts up. Constantly thinking about this or that and jumping around between subjects before a complete thought is finished. I thought it was normal until I started asking some folks, "What are you thinking about?" and the answer would be "nothing". "But you have to be thinking about something!". "Nope. The brain is quiet as a tomb".  huh  huh

That just made no sense to me. But I sure would hate it if the noise ever stopped. 

One of my kids was said to have ADHD and they wanted to start him on drugs. If I remember it correctly, I was driving trucks at that time and all of this happened when I was on the road. I got home and found out about it and that they put him on drugs and put a stop to that right quick.

Even at the age of two this son of mine could figure some one out real fast. We had baby sitters he liked, and then there were those ready to quit with in thirty minutes. They just couldn't control him and he knew it. Same with the teacher. Plus they wouldn't challenge him, they bored him.

But I also think this; Does it seem the number of ADHD cases has risen ever since they banned corporal punishment? Hummmmm. Let us drug the kids into submission now that we can't spank them.

Still can't believe they injected mercury into the kids.
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2007, 10:11:16 PM »

it's not mercury as you think of it in a thermometer.  it's a compound that breaks down into ethylmercury and is excreted.  it's been used for many years.

now, the kind of mercury you are thinking about used to be used as a medicine in ancient times.  people did tend to be poisoned by it  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2007, 10:12:04 PM »

The problem with my younger son was that he has an IQ of 149 and he was as that time going into the third grade unable to read a word.  I'd been trying to get the school to do something about it the whole previous year, but they weren't listening.  It wasn't until I threatened them with a lawyer that they did the CORE evaluation on him.  By that time I had him with a tutor and had taken him on my own to a neurologist.  My doctor (the neurologist) gave him a battery of tests and came up with the diagnosis of ADHD, and after researching it myself I realized it was a common thread through my family.  Because he really needed to focus in school I decided to try the meds for him.  It worked amazingly well.  He didn't, however, take any at home, on weekends or during the summer.  Because as far as I'm concerned he's perfectly normal, I could handle him (because he's so much like me!).  He agreed that the Ritalin helped him in school, when he no longer felt he needed it, he stopped.  No problem.  He learned to read (although since he had been so embarassed by being told to read to the class and couldn't, to this day he hates it) and caught up to his classmates, in some cases exceeded them.  He's 22 now and while he hasn't decided what he really wants to do with his life, he's healthy, smart, not in trouble (that's a frequent problem for ADHD kids, unfortunately), and still a hornet-blossom!  cheesy
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2007, 10:37:11 PM »

He's 22 now and while he hasn't decided what he really wants to do with his life, he's healthy, smart, not in trouble (that's a frequent problem for ADHD kids, unfortunately), and still a hornet-blossom!  cheesy

I never figured it out either. The longest job I could stick with was Driving trucks cross country. Always something different. Had to be flatbed. Reefers (refrigerated) was too repetitious. Different places, but basically the same thing all the time as far as loading and unloading.

There was just so much I could have been great at, just knew I would get bored with it. So I am poor and happy, so what. How does one measure success? Happiness or wealth? 
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2007, 11:02:43 PM »

Most people haven't figured out what to do with their life at 22. My situation was slightly different. I started living on my own at 16. I had an apartment and bills and a couple of jobs. Fear of living on the street gave me a great desire to focus. I realized that a career was going to be vital to eating. I just had to find something I liked to do. Because I didn't want to go to a job I hated everyday. The thing that is different for me is I tend to run several hobbies at once. A way to focus my energies. So I have a large group of extra  curricular activites.


Sincerely,
Brendhan
Currently in Raleigh, NC
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2007, 12:32:53 AM »

when my father booted my brother out the door.....my mother cried.  my father, ever the wise man, told her that "fear of starvation is the greatest motivator on earth".  and so it was...he lived in his car for a couple of weeks then decided to get it together.  six figures later, he has a nice life....smiley

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2007, 03:42:40 AM »

We have an ADHD epidemic here, its the disease of the 21st century.

Its caused by parents that should have never been allowed to breed in the first place. It is endemic to parents of low IQ, no jobs and who live on welfare. The gene pool has been allowed to be run down thanks to financial support and lack of institutional support by our Government.

I have nothing against kids, I used to go to school with them. However out of the thousands I have known over the years, not one had ADHD and believe me, I have mixed with every clas sof people you can name.

Its a made up condition, diagnosed by equally incompetant doctors so they can prescribe drugs and make money.

IMO ADHD belongs with the easter bunny and father christmas.

In my country, the bahaviour that is called ADHD simply did not esixt ten years ago, nor has it ever existed in the past.
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AllanJ
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Location: Mineral, Virginia


« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2007, 06:14:11 AM »

I can't believe anyone would defend Ritalin. It is a nasty drug which has resulted in the death of quite a few children. It is also known to be used by adults for kicks. To give a schedule two drug to kids is just insane.

Quote
Actually some feel it's underdiagnosed.

Probably bad parents and bad teachers.

The problem is that teachers can not deal with a class of 25-30 kids when some are different. The goal is to normalize them all to a set level, generally the level of the least intelligent child. If that means drugging the hyper active or gifted child down, then so be it. There is a reason why home schooling has increased significantly over the last 10 years.

In my opinion, bad parenting is not just about neglecting your child when you are together.. it is also those parents that buy the 3000sq ft house and have 2 new vehicles so that both *have* to work full time, as opposed to buying that much cheaper 1000 sq ft house and having 2 lesser vehicles so that 1 parent can remain at home.
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