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Author Topic: How many eggs?  (Read 6140 times)
beeginer
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« on: June 28, 2004, 09:49:43 AM »

Our hive swarmed last week and we were able to put the swarm into a super with plain foundation- no drawn comb.  When we went to look this weekend the swarm is starting to draw comb and there was about a baseball size area that was drawn out enough to hold the eggs, and somebody is laying eggs.  BUT, should there be more than one egg in a cell?  We noticed that most had about 5 eggs in them.
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eivindm
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2004, 10:01:10 AM »

Normally a queen would never put more than 1 egg per cell.  But I have read in other forums on the net, that new queens can lay several eggs the first day or two, and the persons having this problem was advised to wait a few days and check again.  If there was still several eggs in the cells, you have a laying worker.  

Do you know if the swarm queen is the old queen, or if it is an afterswarm with a new one?  If it is the old queen, I think she would never lay more than one in each cell.

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Mchero
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2004, 10:05:37 AM »

Are you feeding them 1:1 sugar water?

Quote from: beeginer
Our hive swarmed last week and we were able to put the swarm into a super with plain foundation- no drawn comb.  When we went to look this weekend the swarm is starting to draw comb and there was about a baseball size area that was drawn out enough to hold the eggs, and somebody is laying eggs.  BUT, should there be more than one egg in a cell?  We noticed that most had about 5 eggs in them.
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beeginer
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2004, 10:25:27 AM »

We are feeding them.  If the weather cooperates I will go back in tonight and see what is happening.
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Mchero
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2004, 10:32:12 AM »

Keep us updated!

RM
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Robo
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2004, 01:22:30 PM »

This is not that uncommon especially for young queens.  I have even seen it in the early spring when a queen starts to lay again.   I would keep an eye on it for a couple of weeks.  Make sure she is not just laying drones.  The workers will remove the excess eggs from the cells.
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Finman
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2004, 01:53:19 PM »

Quote from: beeginer
egg in a cell?  We noticed that most had about 5 eggs in them.


I have met this  many times and it means that queen is missing. Young bees do many eggs into cells.  

I have not seen that young queen lays eggs more than one into the cell. If queen have problem, like antenna is missing, it does not notice existing egg. Queen must be changed if it is so. I raise about 20-30 queens per year.
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beeginer
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2004, 09:24:04 AM »

Well I won't be able to go in and look untill tommorow as I ended up having to work last night and tonight at a here and there part time job.  Will let you know what I see on Wed. eve or Thurs. morning. Thanks for the input so far.
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Bupalos
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2004, 12:58:38 PM »

I spent about two weeks queenless, and at the very end of that period I began to see 2 or 3 eggs in cells, and even some doubled up pupae. Many many egg doubles. I think this was workers starting to lay in the lower box furthest away from where the queen had been before disappearing.

I will be checking again this weekend to see how things are now with a new queen. I expect all those cells to be drone or just to poop out.
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Robo
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2004, 02:54:51 PM »

Bupalos,

If you introduced a new queen into a worker laying hive, chance are they will kill her. The bees become loyal to the laying worker, as their new queen, so it is like trying to introduce a new queen in a queen-right hive.
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Finman
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2004, 03:46:37 PM »

Quote from: Robo
Bupalos,

If you introduced a new queen into a worker laying hive, chance are they will kill her. .


That will happen often. You can put young larvas from another hive and bees begin to raise real queen. So their soul life becomes normal.

When young queen cell is capped, hive is ready take new queen. This takes one week.
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beeginer
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2004, 04:28:23 PM »

Quote
You can put young larvas from another hive and bees begin to raise real queen. So their soul life becomes normal.

When young queen cell is capped, hive is ready take new queen. This takes one week
.


So does that mean that I should hope to see queen cells in this hive?
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Lesli
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2004, 08:42:55 PM »

Quote from: Robo
Bupalos,

If you introduced a new queen into a worker laying hive, chance are they will kill her. The bees become loyal to the laying worker, as their new queen, so it is like trying to introduce a new queen in a queen-right hive.


One book I've read said that a fool-proof way of getting rid of laying workers is this: take the hive 100 yards away. Take out every frame and brush off every single bee into the grass. Don't miss any.

Put the frames back in, put the hive back in its original spot. The field bees will come back without a problem, but all the house bees--and among them the laying workers--won't know how to get back to the hive.

YMMV.  Now, to remember which book I read that in.
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Robo
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 09:04:16 PM »

Quote from: Lesli

One book I've read said that a fool-proof way of getting rid of laying workers is this: take the hive 100 yards away. Take out every frame and brush off every single bee into the grass. Don't miss any.

Put the frames back in, put the hive back in its original spot. The field bees will come back without a problem, but all the house bees--and among them the laying workers--won't know how to get back to the hive.

YMMV.  Now, to remember which book I read that in.


Yup, that's the most commonly recommended solution, but I'm not sure it is fool-proof.  I have heard of cases where the laying worker DID make it back.  Plus dumping all the bees out of the hive is not something they would appreciate and not something I would look forward to doing.

They best method I have heard, and would use if I were to every get a laying worker, would be to combine the hive with another using the newspaper method.  The queen from the queen-right hive would be accepted by the queen-less hive because of being establish and laying brood.  While the laying worker would be killed off by the queen-right hive.  Then after a couple weeks, split the hive with a new queen.
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Finman
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 10:19:09 PM »

Quote from: Robo
Quote from: Lesli

One book I've read said that a fool-proof way of getting rid of laying workers is this: take the hive 100 yards away. Take out every frame and brush off every single bee into the grass. Don't miss any.


Yeah ! I have done this 35 years ago first and last time.  Many beekeepers tell that it does not work.


Actually I have those "rich egg cells" every year when I raise queens. I do not worry about them. When there are young, just hatched bees in the copulating nuc and their do not have queen, they are attached and I think that there are many workers which lay eggs. During one hour they can make hundreds of eggs. And after raising there will be drone larvas. So I take those eggs away.

My favorite is that I put a temporary queen I have that kind, e.g. old queen which I going to discard. I try what they are going to do.

Quote


The best method I have heard, and would use if I were to every get a laying worker, would be to combine the hive with another using the newspaper method.  The queen from the queen-right hive would be accepted by the queen-less hive because of being establish and laying brood.  While the laying worker would be killed off by the queen-right hive.  Then after a couple weeks, split the hive with a new queen.


That is my best method too.

But the queen is not main problem. Now it is summer and bees should gather honey. That is their purpose and licence for existing in my yard.

In that abnormal state bees do not work properly. That is why it is best put them together with nabor hive.  Bees of queenles hive  are ready to work outside. So naboring hive will get a great honey army.

You can start a new nuc with a new queen. Do not split gathering hive. Just take a coulple of frames where bees are just coming out.

When autumn comes and honey yield is going to be over, take more brood frames from another hive so you have one box bees. That hive raise enough bees for winter.


I have 13-18 hives per year.  Some are extra hives. If they have problems, I put them together and I do not live according to those problems.

I raise also queen every year. Just nor I have  9 pieces Queen copulating nuc (or what they are?). There is in the nuc 2 frames. I have splitted a box into 4 department and the entry is every 4 different direction via floor frame  hole.  I got now those queens from swarms. Swarming hive is not good origin for new queens and most of them will be changed to better as soon as possible.

When I get exra queen from swarms, I put those into copulating nucs. Thei are not good queens. I raise good queens from eggs which are from some good hive.

I can change eggs from good to hive to the colony, where they are raising queen cells for themselves.

What books tell it is not valuable for me after 42 years. I do what seems easy at that moment. I know a lot of tricks and I use many, for funny e.g.
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