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GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Re: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice?
« Last post by GSF on July 23, 2016, 02:09:35 PM »
MT Bee Girl, we all wish you the best of luck.., keep us posted.
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GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Re: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice?
« Last post by sawdstmakr on July 23, 2016, 12:55:42 PM »
Ace,
Use the bee vac for the field bees and the guard bees. The nurse bees will stay on the comb and care for the larvae.
Once the guard bees and field bees are gone, the hive usually calms down.
Jim
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GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Re: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice?
« Last post by Acebird on July 23, 2016, 12:38:16 PM »
The bee vac should be constructed like a cyclone dust collector and there will be no wall for them to smash against.  The top should be clear so you can see if the bees are clogging the LARGE screen area of the vacuum source.  If the colony is large then it will take multiple emptying of the collection container.  Where to put them needs to be considered.
A bee can fly about 35 mph so the air velocity only needs to be about 40-50.  A standard shop vac is no good because at the end of the hose is a sharp 90 degree turn that the bees will smack into and squish.  Do not make your collection container like a shop vac.  Make it like a cyclone where the air flow spins at the top of the container and slows down towards the bottom.
For those that use a bee vac do you concentrate on the nurse bees or the flying foragers?  Not knowing I would go for the nurse bees and not the air borne bees.  What say you?
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DISEASE & PEST CONTROL / Re: Varroa and Electrostatic Charge
« Last post by little john on July 23, 2016, 11:35:11 AM »
Michael - I've sent you a copy of that paper, and also a paper on 'Insects and Electrical Fields' which, also mainly focussed on Drosophila, does expand upon the biochemical responses to electrical charge which insects can experience - especially with regard to communication via antennae etc.

For anyone with an interest in the response of Varroa to electrostatic charges, here is the abstract:
Quote
Precise measurement of the electrical charges carried by honey bee workers allows one to investigate the role of this abiotic factor in bee contamination by the ectoparasitic mite Varroa jacobsoni. A metallic cylinder charged with four different intensities (chosen in the range measured on living bees) of either positive or negative sign was used as a lure. The mite's movements in the vicinity of the cylinder was videotaped and subsequently digitized. Spatial and temporal dimensions of the paths were computed by a specially designed analysis programme. The frequency and nature of the contacts with the lure were also noted. A two-way ANOVA indicated no significant differences in the characteristics of the paths between charges of different intensities. However, the charge sign was found to influence the following characteristics: immobility, velocity, turning angle standard deviation and sinuosity. In addition, the frequency with which the mite contacted and climbed on the cylinder was higher in the case of negative charge. We suggest that the mites are not merely passively attracted towards the lure by the action of electrical forces. Rather, the detection of charges triggers a change in the movements of the animal which increases the probability to contact its host.

What these guys discovered was that the Varroa mite appears to be initially attracted to the negative charge which builds up on the hairs of the honey bee during flight.  But - although interesting in it's own right, this finding doesn't seem to lead anywhere.

LJ
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DISEASE & PEST CONTROL / Re: Varroa and Electrostatic Charge
« Last post by Michael Bush on July 23, 2016, 10:50:28 AM »
I'd love to hear a synopsis of what it says at least...
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It probably IS a bad situation, I get that, but it's hard for me to forget that to the news media terms like "staggering" and "cache" and "hoard" and "arsenal" often mean two or three guns...  The same with ammo.  I can shoot up 1,000 rounds of ammo in a day of prairie dog hunting.  So I don't consider that to be very much ammo...  but the news media tends to view that as 1,000 murders... I'd be more impressed if they would stick to actual numbers in their reports rather than inflammatory words like "staggering".  The did that some.  I mean "uncovered 334 weapons" is useful.  But prefacing it with "staggering" does not sound very impartial.
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GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Re: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice?
« Last post by Michael Bush on July 23, 2016, 10:40:36 AM »
My take on cutouts. 

1) do not try to save any honey.  Scrap it all.  If you really think it's not been sprayed, then feed it to the bees unless there is some way to actually keep it clean.  Usually it's covered in dirt and sawdust by the time you're done.

2) do not try to save ALL the brood.  Go for the big chunks.  Figure on trying to save 50%.  Try to be sure to get some emerging brood (to quickly repopulate) and some open brood (in case you miss the queen and to anchor them to the new hive).  If you try to save it all you often don't have enough bees to cover it and the SHB or the wax moths take over.

3) do not use a bee vac.  I've probably killed more bees with a vacuum than anything else.  If you insist, then take precautions not to overheat them and to cushion their crash landing int he vacuum.  I just don't use them.  Piles of sticky, overheated, dead bees are just too depressing...

4) keep an eye out for the queen.  Any cluster of bees is suspect but especially if there is a tight knot in the middle of the cluster.  Shake or brush all the bees into the new hive. 

5) have a bucket of water to wash out the brush as it will get very sticky.  Have a bucket with a lid for the honey.  Another bucket for empty comb.  Another bucket for scrapped brood.  A hairclip queen catcher for if you see the queen.  Some lemongrass essential oil.  Put four drops in the new hive and ten or so on the outside of the new hive.  If you have some QMP (Queen Mandibular Pheromone) use some of that.  If it's the PsuedoQueen plastic kind, use a full tube or at least half in the new hive.  If it's in the form of "queen juice" (old queens in alcohol) use four drops of the alcohol in the new hive.  Have some pinesol to spray in the old location to cover pheromones there.  I agree you should charge in the long run, but it is hard to honestly charge money for a service when you've never done it before.  But as Idee says, once you realize how much work it is, you'll see why you should charge...
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GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Re: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice?
« Last post by MT Bee Girl on July 23, 2016, 10:22:49 AM »
That's where I'm at acebird. I have no experience doing this at all and if I were to charge him, I would really feel responsible if something went amok. He understands that I'm a new beekeeper and this will be my first time attempting such a thing. I'm not doing it to get free bees or anything. I want to do it to learn more about bees and get experience working with "wild" bees. I also just feel bad for the guy because they're now showing up going through his store and there's really no other option for him than to just kill them. Which I don't want either.

This is an old building and removing the panels in the ceiling to get too them won't be very difficult. Working in a tight area for an extended time will be, yes. I understand this. I didn't realize it will take as long as you all say but I understand that now. I've mentioned that I have thought about the whole thing and I will not attempt this without a bee vac. I will build one this weekend. My husband is a carpenter and contractor so if repairs are needed, he can do that. But I don't believe the repairs will be that involved at all.

The owner and I have talked, but not really in depth about either of our expectations, so that's what will need to happen first of all. I'll call him today to have a sit down with him and outline exactly what I plan on doing, what could and may happen, how far I will go with clean up and what he will need to do as well.

I'm sorry guys. It's been a long week already. I wish I could stay longer but have to get to work. I really really do appreciate each and everyone of your words of advice and experience. I put my hubby on building me a bee vac today.
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GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Re: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice?
« Last post by Acebird on July 23, 2016, 08:46:44 AM »
WALK AWAY.......  NO, RUN.

Well I think you are opening up a can of worms if you charge on your first cut out.  If you charge then you take on an obligated and most likely you are not prepared and it results in a flop with damage to the structure.  I don't think your first cut out should be to get free bees.  I think it should be for the experience and education of the process that you are paying for with your time (maybe some money in equipment).
As I said, I have no experience with a cut out but I could estimate the repairs and get paid for what I know well.  I also know how to keep the repairs to a minimum which is the greater cost of ridding the bees from the structure.

If I didn't know the person I would get his/her signature on a statement that says, "I will make an attempt to remove the bees and I am not responsible for damages.  There is no guarantee that I will be successful in removing the colony."
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Usually the bees will take care of the problem. Most hives have laying workers but the bees remove the eggs.
The queen excluder is probably causing the problem by not allowing the queens retinue bees from carrying the queens pheromones above the QE.
Try removing it and see what happens.
I do not use them except to keep the queen in a new hive from a cutout or swarm.
Jim
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