Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot

[Understudy]

http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Administer_an_Epinephrine_Shot

You may find this helpful if you need to deal with someone who is allergic to bee venom.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[tlynn]

When I was in college I studied with a professor who worked with social insects, mostly ants, some bees.  He had a couple of hives on the roof of the biology dept.  One of his grad students went up to help him one day and she got stung.  Her scalp started to tingle and she began to get short of breath quickly.  Immediately he grabbed her and they rushed downstairs.  Fortunately the hospital was 5 minutes away.  By the time he got her the car, she started to black out.  They got there in time and she recovered fine.  Back then there were no epi pens. 

[annette]

I have 2 on hand, but I would still be very frightened to actually have to use this on anyone. I guess given the alternative, I would have to. Thanks for the info. Always good to read up again and again.

Annette

[JP]

Brendhan, you did the site an important service with this post, great job and kudos!


...JP

[thomashton]

Good info.

Anyone who's been in the military and gone through chemical warfare training should know this too. The difference is that we are trained to self administer and to give as many as three doses.

[qa33010]

Good info.

Anyone who's been in the military and gone through chemical warfare training should know this too. The difference is that we are trained to self administer and to give as many as three doses.

    It's nice to know that some knowledge is still good though.

[Nelly]

Great info!  I was reading through the info that comes with an Epi Pen and they specifically state that you DO NOT STAB the needle into the muscle, it can go too deep and actually enter the bone.  I've administered other shots to myself for medical reasons and it's similar to pushing the shot into an orange with a tough skin.   Since I my kids participate in beekeeping, I carry an Epi Pen with me.

Nelly

[1of6]

What is required to get an epipen?  No one in my family is allergic, but I'd feel better having one around in case someone in the neighborhood does have an allergic reaction.

[annette]

You have to get a prescription from the dr and it costs some money. I had to pay 35.00 for a package of two and they are only good for one year and then they expire.

[Romahawk]

What is required to get an epipen?  No one in my family is allergic, but I'd feel better having one around in case someone in the neighborhood does have an allergic reaction.

You might want to check and see what the liability might be if you administered a shot to someone other than yourself. That might come under the heading of practicing medicine without a license.

[1of6]

It's like life insurance - no one wants to have to use it.  I understand your thought though.

If they want to sue me, I'll gladly have it.  I'll even have them over for dinner the following week if they're alive to eat with me.    I'd feel worse doing nothing.  Neglect is a terrible thing.

[Nelly]

I got the pen because my kids do beekeeping with me, and I just want to be prepared.  I got the rx from my doctor, taking my kid's weights into consideration for the proper dosage.

Susan

[DennisD]

What is required to get an epipen?  No one in my family is allergic, but I'd feel better having one around in case someone in the neighborhood does have an allergic reaction.

You might want to check and see what the liability might be if you administered a shot to someone other than yourself. That might come under the heading of practicing medicine without a license.

You are allowed to ASSIST someone administer their OWN Epi injection. If you use YOUR Epi-pen and can articulate it's use to save LIFE, you are covered under a broad spectrum of the "Good Samaritan Act". Now, this is "within reason" and must meet the criteria where "another person of similar understanding and means would have acted the same", this is a way of saying "Just because someone is having a heart attack, does not provide you with the legal freedom to perform open heart surgery. Although a person with a good grasp of an emergency tracheotomy would fall under the same legal protection of the Good Samaritan Act where an ill or injured person's airway was closed at the epiglottis and this technique was performed by a "lay person" that had a "reasonable understanding" of this form of "intervention" to save a life.

Caveat for MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS: Check with your state's protocols concerning the GOOD SAMARITAN ACT and your SCOPE OF PRACTICE -v- negligence (In acting above and beyond scope of practice or a reasonable person with the same training -v- would they have acted similarly) as some states have different policies regarding medical professionals as the Good Sam act is primarily designed to protect "lay persons" from legal consequences in attempt to save a life where lay persons once were hesitant to intervene with an acutely injured/ill person due to legal peril this increasing the survivability of victims of illness or injury in absence of EMS/Medical personnel. a good first aid/first responders course for your area of legal jurisdiction can explain further your areas of limitations in respect to lay person medical intervention to save lives. Generally and within "general reasoning", medical intervention to persons in immediate peril of dying carried broad relief for the lay person administering such interventions. Again, consult your local laws concerning the Good Samaritan Act.

Note: I am not a LAWYER nor do I play one on TV.... It is up to you to use what you know and have to SAVE a LIFE, unlike an off duty EMT, EMT-P, RT, RN, DO or MD that STOPS at the scene, you have NO LEGAL DUTY TO ACT, only measure your own MORAL DUTY to act against what you know, have available versus unreasonable, scene safety, etc. Further examples of an unreasonable act in addition to gross unreasonable intervention is to place you are a rescuer in harms way to effect a rescue where you become a second victim, i.e. running through traffic on a freeway to assist the injured, thus causing you to be struck by another vehicle and injuring the occupants, you have no legal relief to prevent that other car's occupants from suing you, or if one of the occupants die, you may very well face negligent manslaughter criminal charges as a "reasonable person would have not done so".

Sorry for the book, but there is NO cut and dry answer without explaining further. Again, knowledge is POWER, check your local laws concerning the Good Samaritan Act and have a reasonable head on your shoulders. I've done as best as I can to explain this to the very best of my understanding. I would hate to think someone here would die from allergic reaction to a bee sting where would be rescuers failed to act due to fear of law yet law is in place to legally protect the would be rescuer from legal peril due to acting to save life. Thus this long winded post.

On my part, INFORMED CONSENT directive, if you see ME down, and I have severe anaphylaxis and you have an Epi-Pen, STICK ME! I'll be glad you did, so will my kids.

[Cindi]

Dennis, excellent, I liked your "book", hee, hee.  You spent alot of time to respond to that post, and oh yep, yep, that is a good thing.  Have the most wonderful and awesome of these days, Cindi

[Davepeg]

Thank you for posting this important information.  It should be a "must read" for all beekeepers!

[BjornBee]

For those who do not have an epi-pen, or have bees on someone else's property, an alternative, and perhaps even a safer one would be a bottle of benedryl.

It will not save your life, but will buy you an extra 20-30 minutes to get to a hospital, that you would not of otherwise had.

I have an epi-pen at the house. I originally got it to keep in the truck, but it is temperature sensitive.

I have bees on farms with children. And strongly suggest that every family have a bottle on hand.

And you don't take a teaspoon or two. If you are experiencing the beginnings tightening of the chest, difficulty breathing, etc.....you drink the WHOLE bottle. You may throw up, but it will buy you time.

[tlozo]

Is the Benadryl the children's liquid strength? I can't find Benadryl for adults in liquid form. Or is it the same?

[UtahBees]

My epi-pens on-hand saved my life this year.

Lesson learned #1: Don't wear un-tied tennis shoes while moving your beehives.

I was stung 7 times, 4 and 3, in each ankle. I thought I'm a man and can handle it. Besides I had been stung a few times and hadn't had a reaction.

7 times all at once crossed the line for my body. Breathing got more difficult, head, armpits, and other areas severely itchy. I understood that I was having a reaction. I went inside, whipped out the epi-pen, and asked my wife to stab me because I was a wuss.

(Side note: mine came with practice device. It trains you how to administer the shot. Very cool idea)

Within 1 minute things got easier, esp. breathing. Five minutes and I was doing much better. The hives took the night to go away.

So, what's really the first rule I learned this year? Have an epi-pen handy. Just in case



Have a great weekend!

[annette]

Is the Benadryl the children's liquid strength? I can't find Benadryl for adults in liquid form. Or is it the same?

I have the liquid but do not remember if adult or child. I will have to go up to the storage shack and take a look later today. Will get back to you and let you know.

[Zane]

GREAT info. Thanks.
I did have a problem getting a "script" since "I" wasnt allergic, but my ex is and she drops off stuff once in a great while. Mostly I was wanting one or 2 as a "just in case" reason. Anyone know of the right thing to tell the Dr to get them to losen up?

[lowlander]

Hi Everyone,

I commend everyone for their comments and info.  I am first aid certified with the Canadian Coast Guard and the only thing that I can add is that if you find someone who has just been stung and has an epi pen of their own you may still need to help.  This is because the needle on an epi pen is quite thick and hurts when it goes in - in most cases it will leave a good bruise.  The normal reaction for people who have used an epi pen in the past, is that they will be holding the epi pen in their hand - not wanting to give it to themselves because they know how much it will hurt.  You need to ask their permission to give it to them, if they start to pass out, are not able to answer or black out, you can assume consent is given and administer the epi pen.

Brian

[redbeard]

If you don't have an epi pen you can use benedryil.  The kind that come in the strips that melt on your tongue.  That is one of the faster ways for medicine to enter the body other than injection. 

[Davepeg]

Our doctor also would not prescribe a pen for me.  He was concerned about the liability if we used it on someone else (which is the point as my husband and I have not had problems, yet, with stings).  The bottle of bendryl is a good idea, I'm going to make sure I at least have that in my cabinet.

[rast]

 I bought a package of 2 pens today. $60. Ouch, unless, someone around me needs it. My doctor did not give me a problem writting the prescription along with all the other drugs (mostly heart). All I did when he questioned me was say that I never knew when my immunity could go the other way. "You know how it can be with histens Doc". Also wrote it with 2 refills. I never aluded that it could be for someone else. Always me.

[dpence]

Good information.  One never knows what kind of situation my arise.

David

[JayC]

Telling a doc that you want it on hand to give "someone" is probably a bad idea.  Some docs, without knowing you have an allergy, may just be stubborn and refuse to do it.  Hopefully most wouldn't be like that.  I plan on telling my doc that while I've been stung twice, and have had normal reactions, but that my dad has a history of anaphyllaxis, and that I'd rather have an epi pen around in case I follow his footsteps.  Now...  I'm not telling anyone to lie to their doc, but unless your doc is also your dad's doc...

[Highlandsfreedom]

I agree this is a must read for all.  thanks for the book it should bee published on the top reads. I know I learned a lot thanks.

[OK Wildlife Control]

I didn't read all of the replies, so this might have already been addressed ... but I did read the first few.

An Epi-pen is a prescription ... and only for use for the one to whom it's prescribed. It can have fatal consequences if used improperly, or on someone else for whom it's not prescribed.

[joker1656]

OK, I like your little quote.  The one about the cop being too heavy.  We need more lawabiders carrying guns.  I am a cop, and that is my opinion. 

Anyway, I was not sure where to post this question, but this looked like about the best spot.  What is a normal reaction to a bee sting?  When I get stung, I have some heavy-duty swelling at the sting site.  For example, I was stung on the top of my foot last night.  Long story...  Today I have an ankle and foot that are about twice their normal size.  This happens every time I am stung.  Huge local swelling.  I dont mind it, neccessarily, I just wondered if this was a normal reaction.  My wife is concerned that I am "mildly allergic".  I keep telling her that I will buiild an immunity over time.  I am starting to wonder, though. 

Thanks for any responses. 

[Karl Wisconsin]

Big thing to remember : If someone is getting into trouble call 911. In some cases a second epi pen is needed. Get help coming immediately. I was an E.M.T. for 21 years here in Wisconsin. Each of our ambos carried at least two pens.

[hardwood]

Zane, tell your Doc that you're a beekeeper and have heard of other beeks who have developed an intolerance to the stings and you only want it "just in case" most will oblige. After all he doesn't want you wearing a body bag to your next visit eh?

I keep a coulpe of epipens in the frige, both adult and epipen juniors just in case. My father developed an intolerance (suprisingly not from too many bee stings but rather from too many fire ant stings,,,similar toxins I surmise) but he still works bees knowing that the pen is never far away.

Note: if you ever have to use one you still need immediate medical attention!

Peace be yours,
Scott

[kathyp]

joker, you have a large local reaction.  it  may get better, or it may get worse.  i have the same and it has been that way always.  i have the epi-pens just in case.  it you have reactions it's worth it to carry the pens in case your reactions develop into a full blown allergy.  what you have now is a sensitivity to the stings.  your doc should have no problem writing for them and you should get 2.

[joker1656]

Kathy, since I asked this question I have been stung numerous times....(obviously, right? LOL)  I no longer have a sensitivity, it seems.  The last 15, or so, times I have been stung have resulted in little to no swelling.  Most of those times were through my suit.  I thought, maybe, it was because the stingers were not able to get all the way in.  Not so; I was stung twice this past weekend.  They got me once between the eyes, and once on the ear.  They both felt GREAT!!!   I had no swelling between the eyes, and very very minimal swelling on the ear.  Both stingers were ALL the way in.  The ear stinger drew blood. 

The epi-pen and the benadryl are always at the ready, though.  I am just happy to not have to deal with the swelling and itching.....for now.  I have heard that it can go the other way without warning.  We will see. 

[deknow]

um, there is some very important information missing here.  in the interest of safety (and liability of those reading), mods, this should be near the top of the thread, not the bottom.

AN EPI-PEN IS NOT a CURE FOR AN ANAPHALACTIC REACTION.  ITS PURPOSE IS TO BUY TIME WHILE MEDICAL HELP IS ON ITS WAY (OR YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO IT).  THE DECISION TO USE AN EPI-PEN SHOULD BE SECONDARY TO THE DECISION TO GET ACTUAL MEDICAL HELP.  IF YOU DON'T NEED MEDICAL HELP, YOU DON'T NEED AN EPI-PEN.  THIS IS a STOPGAP MEASURE, NOT a CURE, NOT a TREATMENT, NOT a SUBSTITUTE. 

i would never advise that someone use an epi-pen on someone other than who it was prescribed for, but i can imagine a situation where i would do so.  i would do my best to get instructions from 911 to do so, but not getting such instructions wouldn't prevent me from doing so...but i would also be on the way to the hospital.

deknow

[annette]

Good point in bringing this up.  I just assumed that people would understand this fact, but good to mention this.

[mjdtexan]

Have you guys settled on a reliable source for epi-pens yet? 

[buzzbee]

Have you guys settled on a reliable source for epi-pens yet? 

The only place to get them is from a pharmacy after getting a prescription or if your personal physician gives you one.They can not be purchased over the counter.

[Roadigger]

 Hello everyone I am new to this site. I have just got back into keeping bees last summer with 4 langsroth hives. I however several years ago got stung about 10 times one day all at one time. I wasn't wearing any hood or anything I was leting my daughter use it. Any ways after we were done didn't think much about it and was getting ready to seat down to eat and I all of a sudden heard pounding in my ears and my body got real heavy and weak. Chest felt heavy also. I yell for my wide to drive me to the hospital. Sice I live in the country. I had my head out the window sucking air as it helped. by the time I got there I was covered in hives and itching. They took care of me and kept me over night. The doctor told me I had
 anaphalic shock spell wrong. he said no more bees for me and that I could die next time. For some reason you can become allergic at any time in your life. I went to an allergist and she was really intrested in treating me. I said I just got to do bee I love it. She agreeded and I took bee venom shoots for a year.
 I probably should of taken them longer because they say it can take a few years. But she told me I was protected and if I really wanted to take the chance she could not stop me. So with 2 epi pens I started off with 4 hives. After installing bees I was wearing Black socks and was working them faceing the entrance what a dope. I got stung about 8 times on my ankles as my wife watch me. I sat down and waited it out to see what would happen to me. Nothing just the usual swelling and itch. I then continued to get some bees and sting my self about 4 times a week and I have been good to go . So watch it all of you I am 6 foot 6 and those 10 little women who stung me almost took me down. But I love bees as you all do.   Ron

[Dracono]

Here is a safty NOTE for every one who uses an epi-pen... when you give it to your self or some one else
make sure to not have your thumb over the back ove the pen for it can break and you get the spring shoved through your thumb....
I know this porsonaly. I was in my E.M.T. class and the teacher accedently had done this and had to be rushed to the e.r. as for it when straight through his thumb.

I have Epie-pens also. I had just told my doc that I am now starting to keep bee's and I wanted to be safe...
and she asked me if I ever had an alergic reactions to bee stings.
O told her when I was a kid I was a stupid young kid and when I was in the forest I had tossed rocks at this hive... BAD ME almost cost me my life. I berly mad it back to the highway and woke up in the E.R.
So she whent on and gave me the pens. although I have had been stung sence then but not more then 1 be at a time. I want to be safe just in case.

As for if I had to use it on any one else I would do so with out a second thought. The 2 best places to give the shot at is the outer side of the thigh and on the tricept although it hurts more on the arm but it works much faster... FYI.

[Storm]

I am a beek who is allergic.  I am a second generation beek, and as a child, I was stung in the throat by a bumble bee that was looking to rob a hive my uncle and I were working.  Later that same summer, I accidentally backed into a tree that had a hornet's nest, and was stung over 25 times along the length of my body, resulting in anaphylaxis and renal toxicity.  Since then a single sting will result in a reaction ranging from severe swelling and redness, to full-blown allergic reaction with hives, itching, and breathing loss. 

I always carry my epi-pens in the apiary, and usually some liquid children's benadryl as well, for the more mild stings.  By the way, the correct dose of Liquid Children's Benadryl for an adult having a moderate allergic reaction (i.e. severe swelling but no hives or anaphylaxis) is 8 teaspoons.  This equals 50mg of regular Benadryl.  If you are having hives and itching, or trouble breathing, it is best to use the epi-pen and get medical help, IMHO.  As stated repeatedly on this forum, one never knows when the allergy will take a nasty turn.

Take it from me...don't let allergies keep you from your bees.  And all beeks would be wise to learn how to use the pen, for their own sake, and for the life they might one day save.

[kathyp]

By the way, the correct dose of Liquid Children's Benadryl for an adult having a moderate allergic reaction (i.e. severe swelling but no hives or anaphylaxis) is 8 teaspoons.  This equals 50mg of regular Benadryl.

i carry liquid benadryl also.  one of the very nice things about it is that a good swig will not OD you.  i tend to get stung doing things like cutouts and i don't remember to take a spoon, but the benadryl is in the cutout kit.